Feeblemind 1 #26 January 15, 2007 QuoteMaybe because most rigs close left to right? My Wings hasn't arrived yet, but I guess I'll have to deal with this stuff myself soon. Most rigs close left than right? So the accronym I was toaught has beens all wrong?! Big (bottom) Titted (top) Rich (right) Ladies (left) It was all a LIE so you say!! Dammit I have been trumped and mis-informed by my pears all this time. Crap no I havent, it is you that are in error Olie Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #27 January 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteMaybe because most rigs close left to right? My Wings hasn't arrived yet, but I guess I'll have to deal with this stuff myself soon. Most rigs close left than right? So the accronym I was toaught has beens all wrong?! Big (bottom) Titted (top) Rich (right) Ladies (left) It was all a LIE so you say!! Dammit I have been trumped and mis-informed by my pears all this time. Crap no I havent, it is you that are in error Olie Depends on the rig. I have packed (by the manual) rigs that close R-L and others that pack L-R. Many rigs are built symmetrical, but others are not and therefore favor one order over the other. I learned the order/mantra at my DZ for the rigs that they used and then closed my first rig the same way everyone else did for 8 years... then realized that I was actually closing it backwards for MY rig and that my rig is one that is built asymmetrically, favoring a specific order... Recommend that you follow the manual, and in case of question (or conflicting information in the manual) call the MFG. JW PS - BTW - I agree with the rest... for one reason or another it is packed with a closing loop that is suspiciously long...Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #28 January 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteMaybe because most rigs close left to right? My Wings hasn't arrived yet, but I guess I'll have to deal with this stuff myself soon. Most rigs close left than right? So the accronym I was toaught has beens all wrong?! I've been told this way: Javelins are left right, and Wings use right-left. My Wings I've always closed right left and never had a problem. I too think the original guys problems are in that his closing loop is way too long. It sounds like he may not pack himself or know much about the internals of a rig, so my advice is to sit down with the packer or a rigger and have them show him how to change a closing loop length. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #29 January 15, 2007 Ok, I think I'm the first person to say this...which is sad, because I thought it was obvious. Turn the pin 90 degrees."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #30 January 15, 2007 Great...I'm sure I'll need it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #31 January 15, 2007 Quote Crap no I havent, it is you that are in error Olie THERE'S NO "i" IN MY NAME!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32 January 15, 2007 Shouldn't need to turn the pin, and it would not get rid of the underlying problem of a loose closing loop. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #33 January 16, 2007 Quote...But I will ask him if he tried to shorten the loop. Thanks. Closing loop adjustment is part of your A progression card so you've already have done this at least once, right? Loop is too long. Beware: Too tight and you may get intimately familiar with EPs for pilot chute in tow. Either I missed it or you didn't say...what is your main and reserve sizes and what size range is your container built for? I'm at a loss on why a rigger would turn it over to you looking like that. I'd suggest a second opinion from a second rigger.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 January 16, 2007 QuoteBeware: Too tight and you may get intimately familiar with EPs for pilot chute in tow. With modern closing pin design and container design, is it actually possible to have a PC in town from a closing loop too tight with a PC that is in good working order? Let me quantify this with having to close the container without any added tension devices. Personally I don't think that without a tension device that its possible to pack a PC in town from a closing loop too tight. Its possible to break closing loops while packing and its possible to cause damage to a rig from long term use of an extremely tight closing loop, though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #35 January 16, 2007 Subterminal for sure. One of my CRWdogs here has a Triathalon 160 in an Aerodyne container. It is the "tight" side of what can get in there. Practically every single CRW opening he has is a PC in tow for a while.. I've seen him have 10 second unintentional delays before.. Another friend has a Javein container with a traditional freefall main - we did CRW a while back and he had such a long pc-in-tow he reached back to pull his own pin and spun himself into such spectacular line twists! Luckily we were at 14 grand so he got out of em but it was amusing to watch... We had another case of a young jumper having a pc-in-tow a few weeks ago. She was watched from above by someone experienced who swore than the pc was out and inflated but wasn't pulling anything. Her container did have a tight pack job, but the main came out as soon as she fired the reserve so its hard to say the cause. We are positive it wasn't a misrouted bridle though. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #36 January 16, 2007 QuoteThis is how I close mine, it helps checking kill line setting. You may also try to center the bag a little better on the tray before closing the flaps as the rig looks kind of distorted. Kneeling on the bag to squeeze air before closing the flaps helps too. Any reason you route the bridle underneath the pin tip? Probably will work fine, but seems a bit counter-intuitive. I would put it over to reduce snagging. And why do people care if its left right or right left...its all going to be the same! THe only way to redistribute the bulk is to do so smashing and hitting with your hands after closing the thing. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #37 January 16, 2007 QuoteQuoteBeware: Too tight and you may get intimately familiar with EPs for pilot chute in tow. With modern closing pin design and container design, is it actually possible to have a PC in town from a closing loop too tight with a PC that is in good working order? Let me quantify this with having to close the container without any added tension devices. Personally I don't think that without a tension device that its possible to pack a PC in town from a closing loop too tight. Its possible to break closing loops while packing and its possible to cause damage to a rig from long term use of an extremely tight closing loop, though. +1:) It's not unusaul when some times a cute girl ask you to help to close her container and you almost cut your palm with pullupcord (yeah I know about powertools:) ) but after this "overtightened" rig lay off for a while the pin is not move so hard IMHO Regarding flap order and closing loops: First of all - of course it's should be done as stated in manual (RTFM :) ) coz the flaps/grommet could be asymmetrical at designed to closing in specifed order but what if it not spec.? IMHO the right - left order is more...h-mm say "natural" way for "right hand deployiment" containers (wich has right open side PC pocet and bridle lay on the right side) coz during deployment the pin/bridle and last flap moves away from each other...what do you think? Regarding closing loop - I am surprised, that Wings's manual does not say anything about it's adjusting=/ nor length, nor pull force nor even just that the loop shold be properly adjusted=/ (if I didn't miss something)...Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #38 January 16, 2007 QuoteRegarding closing loop - I am surprised, that Wings's manual does not say anything about it's adjusting=/ nor length, nor pull force nor even just that the loop shold be properly adjusted=/ (if I didn't miss something)... How about common sense? Does it define when is a loop considered broken? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #39 January 16, 2007 QuoteQuoteRegarding closing loop - I am surprised, that Wings's manual does not say anything about it's adjusting=/ nor length, nor pull force nor even just that the loop shold be properly adjusted=/ (if I didn't miss something)... How about common sense? Does it define when is a loop considered broken? It's states that Loop should be replaced if wear or broken... Common sence is great but IMHO in this case it would be better to difine the length more obviously (coz probably it's proper slack can differ from one model/manufactourer to other due to specific design) So I like how it define in Vector's manualWhy drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #40 January 16, 2007 QuoteCommon sence is great but IMHO in this case it would be better to difine the length more obviously (coz probably it's proper slack can differ from one model/manufactourer to other due to specific design) So I like how it define in Vector's manual How is that defined there? I don't have my manual in hand now. Anyway grommets suppose to be over each other or at least close. That canopy can be oversized for that H/C or really tight and packed really lousy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #41 January 16, 2007 QuoteQuoteCommon sence is great but IMHO in this case it would be better to difine the length more obviously (coz probably it's proper slack can differ from one model/manufactourer to other due to specific design) So I like how it define in Vector's manual How is that defined there? I don't have my manual in hand now. Where "there"? :) Wings (regarding replasecement broken/wear loop): QuoteLocking Loop locking loop made of nylon suspension line sheathing. This loop is subject to wear. If it wears out and breaks, the main canopy may release prematurely and a malfunction may result. Replace the loop with a duplicate if wear is noticed. Vector: QuoteIt may be necessary to adjust the length of the closing loop to make the flaps align properly. The curved pin should be held firmly in place, but a force of no more than 12 pounds should extract it and open the container. The standard length for the closing loop is 1 5/8 inch, (4.1 cm) ± 1/8 inch ( ± 3 mm). QuoteAnyway grommets suppose to be over each other or at least close. That canopy can be oversized for that H/C or really tight and packed really lousy. Not for all model/manufacturer! For my conteiner (russian Status 4) It is For Vector it is not: ***Note that the grommets do not line up - see picture.*** see attachedWhy drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #42 January 16, 2007 Thanks. I think I have more difference than 6mm on closing loops used when my canopy is normal or extra dry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,031 #43 January 16, 2007 >Most rigs close left than right? My experience is that most rigs I've seen are supposed to be closed BTRL. But I don't think it matters all that much if the flaps are symmetrical. I usually close my rigs BTLR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #44 January 16, 2007 There is a way of misrouting your bridle with a pull-out system(see attachment) that you can only do when packing left-right. This could cause a hard or impossible pull. A similar misrouting can theoretically cause a pc-in-tow on a throw-out system, but I think the chances of that happening are fairly slim. Also right-left seems to keep the bridle tighter(more secure) under the right-hand flap, which may be a good thing on rigs that don't pack very tight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #45 January 16, 2007 Excellent point! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #46 January 16, 2007 QuoteAny reason you route the bridle underneath the pin tip? Probably will work fine, but seems a bit counter-intuitive. I would put it over to reduce snagging. No particular reason, just the sequence of steps. After inserting the pin and tucking the bridle under the right flap I usually rotate the pin up. This pulls the bridle to the center, making it flatter and hidden under the pin flap. When I rotate the pin the bridle is already flattened. I see your point and I had the same concern the first time I packed it, but opening the container on the ground shows no sign of snagging.Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 4 #47 January 16, 2007 Quoteroute the bridle underneath the pin tip not sure if I am understanding this correctly, however there was a case here in Oz in the last couple of years of a PC in tow caused by rotating the bridle under the pin after closing. The pin was forced through the bridle on throwing the PC!!I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HALO1 0 #48 January 17, 2007 Jeth - Just got my new Wings container 2-weeks ago and had to adjust the closing loop. As suggested up thread, it's simple (and an "A" requirement). If unsure any rigger can assist. BTW - love the new container and have put 28 jumps on it since last weekend. Got the pud instead of hackey. Perhaps it's time to revive the "show your Wings" thread? Don't be sexist… Broads hate that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #49 January 17, 2007 QuoteThere is a way of misrouting your bridle with a pull-out system(see attachment) that you can only do when packing left-right. This could cause a hard or impossible pull. A similar misrouting can theoretically cause a pc-in-tow on a throw-out system, but I think the chances of that happening are fairly slim. Also right-left seems to keep the bridle tighter(more secure) under the right-hand flap, which may be a good thing on rigs that don't pack very tight. I agree that this could be a potential problem, but not very likely on a wings since the flaps are rounded and would (hopefully) allow the pull out system to rotate and extract the pin. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #50 January 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteroute the bridle underneath the pin tip not sure if I am understanding this correctly, however there was a case here in Oz in the last couple of years of a PC in tow caused by rotating the bridle under the pin after closing. The pin was forced through the bridle on throwing the PC!! A few years ago, if I remember correctly, there was also a PCIT caused when a main pin got caught in the kill-line check window of the bridle. Tucking the excess bridle between the last main flap and the main closing pin would make this rather bizarre malfunction much more likely to occur. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
