EP's - getting your hands to handles

[Beachbum 0]

Ok ... I've been mulling this thought over for quite a while now and decided to post it. I have discussed it with people who have a lot more time and experience in the sport than I do (who seem to agree with me that it makes sense), but nobody has an answer as to why this is not done.

When going for cutaway and reserve handles, why are we not taught to grab webbing at our shoulders and follow it down to handles? In this way, you are never going to not find them, no matter how twisted your harness may be around you, or whatever. The webbing MUST lead you to the handles, right?? Doing this consumes very little time, and I'd guess most likely about the same or even less time than looking, then grabbing ... try it for yourself with your rig on!!! Aside from getting your hands to your handles, it also keeps your eyes freed up for other purposes, and seems less likely to effect body position like dropping your head can do.

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[Chubba 0]

My CI/DZO would kick my ass for not looking at the handles.

I don't think you need to be looking at anything bar your handles during your EP's.

I wouldn't worry about having my head down in freefall, it's nice and stable.

[druvaughn 0]

I was taught this during AFF at Skydive Coastal Carolinas; and also taught to practice before each jump... Reason, as I was told, and feel it holds water, is because your handles can move depending on the type/severity of mal, they won't always be where they are when stationary.

During my time on the ground and in the plane, I have seen people grab handles immediately, and also people follow their webbing. I think it differs where you were taught???

Some of the Ranch folks (I'm thinking of one in particular!!!) do it before every jump in the plane; following the webbing. At Raeford where I am currently, some both ways, and some not at all...

It seems like a good idea to me.

Best,
Dru

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"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."

[faulknerwn 38]

I normally just look and grab, but I have had a mal where I couldn't see my reserve handle and I had to follow the webbing. Its funny because I don't remember ever having been taught it at the time but it seemed logical..

[Beachbum 0]

First, SURELY others have an opinion on this. I didn't expect the amount of posts that boob pics generate ... but geez!!! Perhaps it should have been in the instructor forum??

To Chubba ... I'm not (nor would ever) advocating a student do differently than their instructors tell them. Once past student level, I believe we ARE allowed to think for ourselves a bit though, and this was in my mind and it makes sense to me. You're entitled to think however you want too!! My post was meant to

1) inquire if this IS taught anywhere, and

2) get people to think about the concept and comment about it's viability or lack thereof based on their experience (not just say "it's not what I was taught" ... that part is obvious in my original post!).

3) if it makes sense to many people as it does to me, generate discussion as to why it is not taught

As for where my eyes are looking, I can think of at least one very important thing to keep track of ... my altimeter. If I can find my handles easily regardless of my rig's orientation on my body using the method I described, why NOT do it?? It does have the advantage that sight doesn't necessarily have ... speed of locating handles in the event of my rig being distorted around my body (possibility of which is what got me thinking about this in the first place).

Dru ... thanks! I've only been around training programs at a couple of dz's, and have talked with folks from a few others about it ... nobody I'd spoken with about it was aware of anyone teaching this. I'd be interested to know if that concept came from a dzo, head instructor, or who over there? I'm one of those on the plane who go straight to my handles, but I am also aware that odds are high that they won't be in that same spot in the event that I need them. The one cutaway I've had, I followed the webbing without thinking about it, then realized it after the fact - didn't think to do it. A side note ... I WILL visit that dz one of these days ... used to live in Wilmington, and still have friends there. Miss it!!!

Wendy ... I'm going to try to get up for DeadMan ... hope you'll have a bit of time to say hello and talk a bit. I might even get brave enough to get in the air with you ... Nina's told me you'd be gentle ... ;) ... LOL!!

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[JohnMitchell 16]

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\As for where my eyes are looking, I can think of at least one very important thing to keep track of ... my altimeter.

Once you make the decision to cutaway and deploy your reserve, you shouldn't bother looking at the altimeter again. Make the decision and do it, don't second guess yourself. However, you should know what your altitude is prior to making that decision.

[brettski74 0]

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As for where my eyes are looking, I can think of at least one very important thing to keep track of ... my altimeter.

Why? For sure, you would probably have looked at your altimeter just prior to deciding to cut away, but once you start your emergency procedures, I don't see much useful information to be gained from your altimeter until you're flying under your reserve.

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If I can find my handles easily regardless of my rig's orientation on my body using the method I described, why NOT do it?? It does have the advantage that sight doesn't necessarily have ... speed of locating handles in the event of my rig being distorted around my body (possibility of which is what got me thinking about this in the first place).

What if the webbing over your shoulders has moved? It's not just your handles that may have moved. You may have to look and or feel around just to find the webbing at the shoulder. Why flail around looking for that when you could instead be flailing around looking for the thing you actually want to find?

What if the G-forces from your spiralling ball of shit is affecting your freedom of movement?

I can look down and see both handles at once. If I'm looking at them, I can grab them faster and with less movement than I can feel around "in the dark", so to speak. There may certainly be circumstances where feeling down the webbing may be a good approach, but wherever possible, I'll be looking at my handles and grabbing them directly.

[labrys 0]

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In this way, you are never going to not find them, no matter how twisted your harness may be around you, or whatever.

That's an assumption that's dangerous and unnecessary. If you are looking at your handles you know where they are. You know you aren't yanking on a fold of your shirt or jumpsuit instead of your handles. You aren't wasting valuable time and altitude making assumptions.

Sure, if you can't see the handle then following your MLW down to where you think it is is a great idea, but why start the process without engaging every asset you have, including your eyes? And if you can see the handle, why waste time getting to it?

Owned by Remi #?

[davelepka 4]

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I didn't expect the amount of posts that boob pics generate ... but geez!!! Perhaps it should have been in the instructor forum??

Look friend, if it had been an issue, it would be a standard part of the FJC at every DZ in the country.

If you're wearing a properly fitted harness, and your chest strap is snug, your handles can only go so far. They may not be in the exact spot they're in while you're in the plane, but they'll be close.

The thing is, even is you have a perfectly symetrical malfunction, and your harness isn't twist or pulled in one direction or another, your handles still won't be in the same place as they are in the plane.

If you look at your handles under canopy, they'll be higher and slightly further out from your body then they are before you deploy. If you add a line-over to that, even a nice line-over, now the handles will be up and out, and shaking around a little.

The bottom line is this, you need to look. That's your best bet, and should be your number one priority.

Hell yeah, if that doesn't work, hunt those bastards down and git-r-done, and good work for putting some thought into your emergency procedures. Now pull your panties out of your ass, and stop trying to get everyone to add a step to their emergency procedures.

[Beachbum 0]

Thanks for the input folks!!

John and Brett - I hadn't looked at it that way ... good point about the alti. The one chop I had was a lineover, and I DID refer to mine after locating handles. May have been the wrong thing to do ... I was able to fly it stable with left risers, so once I had it headed the "right" direction, stayed on that, right hand on cutaway in case it went to shit and needed an immediate chop, while positioning where I thought my stuff would land on dz (it did, and I still chopped above 2K).

No - had not considered that my rig could be so distorted about me that the straps would be anywhere but my shoulders. With a rig made to fit, is that really very likely to happen? I may have someone yank around on me to see what happens!

Labrys - another thing I was only looking at from my viewpoint ... thanks! My suit is tight since I'm fallrate challenged, and I hadn't thought about baggy suit folks. I only jumped a t-shirt once and didn't like that because of exactly that problem ... looked down and it HAD blown loose and up over my handles ... never again since!

And Dave ... I believe my 2nd post delineated why I brought it up ... not trying to add a step. One reason was just to generate discussion to get other input, which my 2nd post did better at ... you posted your thoughts ...

So, based on comments, it sounds like this idea might be best suited as a backup in the event you are not able to see handles.

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[kallend 2,026]

There's a video that went around of a guy who was wearing a bellycam when he had a spinning mal. You can see him very clearly pulling on part of the harness he thought was a handle (but wasn't). He finally finds the cutaway, and (not having an RSL) then repeats the harness pulling while trying to find the silver handle. He eventually finds and pulls silver, and you see his reserve deploy right about he time he passes the treetops.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.