PIA - If you're there - What's new?

[piisfish 140]

Quote

Stronger, less pull force and cheaper.

Sounds like a good reason to change to me.

I didn't see the video yet, but how can pull force be less ?

Stronger in "theoretical" force OK, just like slinks, but more subject to friction than a metal cable wouldn't it (just like slinks) ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[ianmdrennan 2]

Bill Booth was saying that it had 25% less pull force than the standard system and up to 85% less when pulled at an angle other than straight down.

I'm assuming friction is a big part of why it's less but I don't know. I'm pretty sure that RWS (or UPT [;P]) can back up their numbers, even if I can't hehehehe

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[councilman24 37]

But durability? When was the last time you had to worry about snags and wear on a metal ripcord? Or replace it once it has primary inspection?

Also not compatible with standard RSL configurations. Only compatible with RWS type RSL with or without skyhook.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[bliston 0]

I believe that the spectra ripcord design incorporates aspects that eliminate "floating handles" (an elasticity element retracts it back to the housing even if the handle is knocked free of the MLW pouch) and also eliminate the exposed excess cable length that exists on standard d-ring handles (While not a huge problem, I've definately seen people wedge it in the velcro or tuck in under the MLW in ways that could hypothetically create a problem). I'll let the video, pictures, or UPT reps out there clarify aspects of the design...

I don't think it falls under the "fixing a problem that doesn't exist" category, it's a safer design that eliminates something that could be a problem in some cases... Don't knock it cause you didn't think of it!

Ben

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

But durability? When was the last time you had to worry about snags and wear on a metal ripcord?

From what I could see the entire system was under tension so there was nothing to get snagged. The only place that could happen was the metal housings (which Bill saw going away anyway) and that hadn't ever happened.

My honest opinion is that Bill Booth has consistantly delivered well thought out and safe advancements in gear to the sport. Perhaps my faith in him and his gear is a little too high but so far I have no reason to doubt him, or his team.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[2shay 0]

yes my faith in him is great but always new stuff is skeptical no matter who it is in my opinion guess ill give it time and go by the numbers on this one sounds fantastic though wouldnt doubt it but you know

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[piisfish 140]

I apologise for the drift in the subbject, but could you please add some punctuation to your posts ? It would definitely make thm easier to read. Thank you.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Andy9o8 2]

I viewed the clip of Bill, and it's very informative. I have to admit, though, that I find the concept of the bungee in the middle of cord – the theory of which looks and sounds great – to be so novel (to me, at least) that I'd like a detailed explanation of possible problems that were either anticipated or cropped up during R & D testing, and how those problems have been accounted for and/or engineered out.

[BlueSBDeath 2]

The real R& D is the Sigma
Same way the main is pulled, is the method of reserve activation Bill is demonstrating. Not sure of the numbers, but it has been on the street (in the air) for a few years now.

Stay Safe,

Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[DSE 5]

I might have heard it wrong, but I believe Bill commented the same; the Sigma has been using the same materials for several years (7?) without issue. After seeing the way this system works, I have zero doubt it's trustworthy, even more so than steel with a swedge.
[edited to add-"but I'm not a rigger; what the hell do I know?]

[billvon 2,989]

Interesting tidbit on the Javelin RSL -

A rigger recently got busted by the FAA for removing a Javelin RSL at the owner's request. Someone asked a Sunpath rigger if this was a real issue, and he said "technically yes - the Javelin manual currently says the RSL cannot be removed." This refers only to packing the reserve, not to user operation, so the user can elect to not connect it to the main riser.

One possible consequence of this is that if a rigger receives a Javelin with no RSL, he may be exposed to some liability if they do not obtain and install a new RSL. Sunpath is considering doing a manual rewrite, but they have not indicated what the new manual will say about RSL installation.

[IanHarrop 41]

Hey video man get back to WORK !!! No goofing off post whoring on dz.com !!!

We're waiting for those last PIA interviews

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[peckerhead 0]

What about the older Javelins that had an optional RSL? My first two Javelins did not come with an RSL.

I recently packed a Javelin with no RSL but I don't think that rig ever had one to begin with.

[billvon 2,989]

Dan Preston presented an interesting thing on composite fabrics for skydiving. He's gotten a process working that laminates individual fabric yarns between two plastic sheets. The resulting material looks (to me) like Tyvek. Some properties of this material:

-Much more rigid. Does not stretch/deform like ZP does.
-Much stronger per pound.
-True zero P over tens of thousands of simulated repack cycles.
-Can be ultrasonically welded; does not have to be sewn.
-Can be optimized for things like ribs (i.e. change the fiber pattern to maximize strength in the directions required)
-Does not absorb water
-Much more UV resistant
-Cannot take color; the fabric is a translucent white, and probably can't be changed in color much
-Currently hideously expensive.

[mnealtx 0]

Is that the 'sail material' I've heard talk about?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[parachutist 2]

Quote

Interesting tidbit on the Javelin RSL -

A rigger recently got busted by the FAA for removing a Javelin RSL at the owner's request. Someone asked a Sunpath rigger if this was a real issue, and he said "technically yes - the Javelin manual currently says the RSL cannot be removed." This refers only to packing the reserve, not to user operation, so the user can elect to not connect it to the main riser.

One possible consequence of this is that if a rigger receives a Javelin with no RSL, he may be exposed to some liability if they do not obtain and install a new RSL. Sunpath is considering doing a manual rewrite, but they have not indicated what the new manual will say about RSL installation.

That's some interesting info. I wasn't aware that an RSL couldn't be removed from a Javelin. I watched a DPRE remove one during assembly of a brand new Javelin Odyssey at owner's request a few months ago. Tonight I looked through a couple versions of the Javelin manual and couldn't locate text stating "RSL can not be removed", but I did find the text below, which could be construed as such -

ASSEMBLING THE RSL
There are two small rings mounted
on the reserve top flap near the end of
the reserve ripcord housing. After
installing the reserve ripcord in the
housing, the cable must be passed
through the ring nearest the housing.
It is then passed through the ring on
the end of the Reserve Static Line,
then through the ring nearest the
grommet in the reserve top flap (FIG.
1).
It is important to assemble the cable
with the rings in this exact order, the
ring nearest the grommet keeps the
cable in line with the pin during
activation and the ring nearest the
housing prevents the ring of the RSL
from being caught on the end of the
housing.
After the reserve container is closed
and the rigger's seal is installed, the
Reserve Static Line must be routed out
from under the reserve pin cover at
the
upper left as shown in (FIG. 2).
The velcro of the RSL should be mated
to the velcro on the left reserve riser to
bring the RSL over the shoulder.
Then the snap-shackle can be
connected to the small ring behind the
inboard side of the left main riser
(FIG. 3).
There should be enough slack in the
RSL so that the main riser can be
pulled in any direction without putting
any tension on the reserve riser. Any
slack in the RSL near the reserve pin
cover can be tucked under the reserve
top flap. (This may vary with the size
of the rig.)

I've always construed this section to indicate that this is how an RSL must be assembled if one is used on the rig. In my skydiving career I've seen quite a few Javelins that have the RSL removed, and this has always appeared to be a valid option. Thanks for bringing this issue up.

If you read "Sun Path Products Position On RSL Removal", you'll see this:
>>the Javelin and Javelin Odyssey harness/container system incorporates the
>>reserve static line as part of the complete system and permanent removal of this part is
>>highly discouraged and NOT recommended.
http://www.sunpath.com/downloads/bulletins/RSLpostion.pdf

'Not recommended' does not indicate to me that the RSL can't be removed. This still seems like a gray area. What caused the FAA to cite a rigger for removal of an RSL?

[kissrg 0]

Quote

But durability? When was the last time you had to worry about snags and wear on a metal ripcord?

Paratec bulletin from 09/08/2004:
'During a routine control (straightening the cable after an RSL activation) came to attention, that the swaging of a reserve ripcord pin was insufficient, causing the ripcord cable to disconnect from the pin with very little force.
The same happened with 4 other ripcords (3x Next Student, 1x Next Tandem)'

PdF bulletin from 09/15/2004:
'A user reported the breaking of one of the coated cables of a MMS metal cutaway handle for main canopy'

UPT (RWS) bulletin from 01/30/2007:
'Ripcord damage found in field on January 18, 2007. Rig was an older Vector II.'

Robert

[Brains 2]

Quote

Is that the 'sail material' I've heard talk about?

No. 'sail material' is a heavier nylon. This stuff is more like plastic or like bill said 'tyvek' like a dust suit for a clean room or something.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[cobaltdan 0]

just got back to ny from the pia.

actually the fabric is not sail material, although it was inspired by.

we have developed a continuous web process for producing non-woven parachute and also ballistic protection fabric. the fabric is produced in house by atair on specialy built machinery.

-

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[RMURRAY 1]

whoever is setting up the interviews and posting on youtube...excellent job!!!

[billvon 2,989]

>What about the older Javelins that had an optional RSL?

No idea. I'm just relaying what was said; Sunpath would be a better entity to answer those questions.

[peckerhead 0]

I agree, but you are the one that brought it up.

[billbooth 10]

What struck me was how little "new stuff" there was. I guess that means that things have stabilized for a while gearwise...which might actually be a good thing. Our big problem, if we have just one, is not gear related...it is people, or training, related.

[johnny1488 1]

Here is what i remember.

Icarus launched the Neos. (I know, cause I was hokking it all week!)

Cimsa introduced a very cool very small tracking unit for main canopies. Very cool.

Bill at UPT had some cool stuff, the new ripcord, retrofit magnetic covers for the Sigma riser and main pin covers. He also showed me the safety strap on th Sigma passenger harness he was thinking of using should the FAA say so.

SunPath introduced the skyhook on the odyssey, along with new reserve flaps and riser covers to accept the velcroless on the right and collins lanyard. Also a new padded backpad with a custom logo imprinted in the middle of the back if you want one.

PD launched the low bulk reserve (Optimum) up to the 143.

Thats all i really had time to look at. Didn't notice much else.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[DSE 5]

I missed the Cimsa release, but I think you hit everything "big" in what you caught.

JumpShack has a new pin that is round vs having squared sides, and it has an off-center eye. John Sherman is exceptionally excited about that. They also have a new speedbag.

Rigging Innovations has a new Talon FX.

Parasport had the smallest audible I've ever seen, about 2/3 the size of the old Time-Out audibles. Really loud, with adjustable freq's for jumpers that have "holes" in their hearing.
Bonehead had two new helmets, plus their Echo helmets distributed exclusively by ParaGear.
Consew had a couple new machines.
Skysystems had a boatload of new helmets.
One of the fabric manufacturers had a revolutionary fabric that should outlast most skydivers, but dying it seems to be a problem, and it's very costly.
Strong has their new ATV system., 366 tandem, and the Screamer system for the military.
SSK Military had some GPS controlled devices.

Heck, I can't remember the rest, but overall, there weren't any new, monstrous groundbreaking technologies that are revolutionary to what currently exists that I saw, other than magnetic risers (which we've been hearing of for a few months, UPT's retractable ripcord, and that's about it...that I saw, and I think I saw it all in 4 days.