GraficO 0 #26 February 12, 2007 watched it... I guess I would want to see the testing of various magnets directly on a tape and on a camera before I made a decision on whether it was viable or not. Eternal skeptic I guess...GraficO "A Mind is a terrible thing to taste." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #27 February 12, 2007 QuoteI don't know much about these magnets other than what I saw on the PIA interview video. However, what crosses my mind is the following: imagine an otter load full of jumpers all wearing rigs with magnetic riser covers. How will that affect the avionics, Cypres's, pacemakers, etc.. I asked Mr. Booth that very question at the convention. He told me that the only significant problem seemed to be with a magnetic compass in say a 182, with the jumper facing rear in the student position. Anything more that about 2 feet away, had no discernible effect on the compass... I do wonder about the effect on digital camera gear though, wish I'd have thought about that question as well! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #28 February 12, 2007 There is ZERO need to worry about these magnets having any effect on a DV tape. None whatsoever. At the PIA, with Bill standing there, after he rubbed the magnets over his chest and a DZO rubbed them over his pacemaker, I put a DV tape with material on the magnets, rubbed it around, and then captured the material. Not only is greater magnetic strength needed, but it also needs phasing/cycling to erase the tape. Someone made a comment about how the magnets "could make the image softer." DV tape contains data. 1's and 0's. The image can't become softer, it's either there, or it isn't. No in betweens. It's like saying a magnet could change the sum of 100 + 100 to 194. I'd be more worried about the flap adhering to the side of an aircraft than I'd be worried about DV or HDV tape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slurp56 0 #29 February 12, 2007 Quote DV tape contains data. 1's and 0's. The image can't become softer, it's either there, or it isn't. No in betweens. It's like saying a magnet could change the sum of 100 + 100 to 194. I'd be more worried about the flap adhering to the side of an aircraft than I'd be worried about DV or HDV tape. Heh.. While DV tapes do contain data in 1's and 0's, as you put it. A single frame employ's ALOT of 1's and 0's. You dont have to alter all of them, just some of them to distort an image. I'm not saying the magnets go one way or the other, I am just starting an argument for lack of anything productive to post ________________________________________ I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badlock 0 #30 February 12, 2007 Quote DV tape contains data. 1's and 0's. The image can't become softer, it's either there, or it isn't. No in betweens. Exactly!! Quote I'd be more worried about the flap adhering to the side of an aircraft than I'd be worried about DV or HDV tape. I have a new MICRON with magnetic riser covers and I think this scenario isn't very realistic in my opinion because of two reasons: 1.: The covers aren't just a piece of fabric with magnets inside. They have a shape that hold them in place. 2.: The covers reclose after they were displaced. The force between the magnet pairs is much greater than between one pair of (cover-) magnets and an aircraft. Additionally you have to imagine that the new risercovers don't work by huge forces. They work by their intelligent construction. This means that the magnets aren't very strong. They have the strenght to do in combination with the cover shape what they should do: Close safely and open when the riser pull force is greater than 5 lbs. But if you can sleep better I will make some experiments with my refrigerator Edit: download the video of the experiment =>here! (Cell phone video, you need Apple Quicktime or something other that plays 3gp-videos!) Don't be a Lutz! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyblu3 0 #31 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuote Bill Booth addresses the Cypres concern as well as pacemakers. Supposedly he had the riser covers at a DZ where a man with a pacemaker took them and put them right next to his pacemaker and suffered no ill effects. I forget what all was said regarding the Cypres. If it won't mess with a pacemaker when a guy puts it as close to his as possible... I doubt it will mess with avionics. This is one rig though. My concern is what the affect will be with a whole plane load full of rigs with magnets. I mentioned a Twin Otter in my previous post but thinking about it what about something bigger like the Perris Jet or a C-130. All those rigs confined in a small space has to create a magnetic field of some kind. Would that magnetic field be strong enough to mess with the Cypres, video cameras, avionics, etc... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NewGuy2005 53 #32 February 12, 2007 QuoteI'd be more worried about the flap adhering to the side of an aircraft than I'd be worried about DV or HDV tape. Magnets won't stick to aluminum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #33 February 12, 2007 Magnets should make launching a 4-way much easier. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tdog 0 #34 February 12, 2007 If we equip all student jumpsuits with magnets, and AFF instructor's gloves with the opposite pole, catching spinning students would be easier. Back to reality.... To the poster about a otter load of magnets... I just don't see it effecting anything serious... Magnetic forces are not these long straight lines that add up with more magnets in the same plane. They dissipate with distance and have curves to the force... I am not good enough with physics to give a formal explanation without doing a lot of research to refresh my memory but before you guys all start theories based upon concerns, base it on science and testing, not Internet rumors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites twibbles 0 #35 February 12, 2007 Quote Magnets should make launching a 4-way much easier. It's getting to the next point that'll get trickier Eugene "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #36 February 12, 2007 Quote Magnets won't stick to aluminum. That's my point. Slurp, there is a HUGE difference between distorting an image and softening it. Yes, under the right circumstances, such as your camera being on top of a pile of rigs with magnetic covers, and you were flipping the camera over and over, it's *possible* that a pile of rigs could generate enough strength to erase a few 1's and 0's, which would potentially leave you with some macroblocks or blocks of missing information. The picture wouldn't be softer, it would be unusable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GraficO 0 #37 February 12, 2007 OMG.... no say it isn't so!!!! planes being made of aluminum?!?!? no!!! It can't be!!!!! LOL... that just made my day! Thanks for starting off my Monday with a chuckle! GraficO "A Mind is a terrible thing to taste." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #38 February 12, 2007 Magnets won't stick to aluminum... *** But...in the movie 'Clear & Present Danger' the commando guys stuck an explosive charge via magnets to the side of that drug runner dudes airplane?! Are you telling me physics over rides the facts presented in the MOVIE?? (Steve Snyder pointed that out to me watching the movie together some years back, he said... "Wasteful Military spending, ya know how EXPENCIVE aluminum magnets ARE?!") ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites teason 0 #39 February 12, 2007 QuoteHe told me that the only significant problem seemed to be with a magnetic compass in say a 182, with the jumper facing rear in the student position. That's assuming you own one of the three 182 jump planes in North America that has a working compass! What else does it do? Make the fuel tanks read accurately too? Maybe it can stop that DG from spinning at mach 2 Ahhhhh...... sorry, I guess you have to know the 182 to get those jokes! My apologies to all the confused jumpers who think a king air is cramped. The long and the short of it is that I don't think it's that big an issue even if it does affect the compass. An experienced pilot should know the topography well enough that the compass is not an issue and if he does need a compass, he shouldn't have gotten into IFR conditions. Love the magnets, like velcro that doesn't wear out or damage your risers and lines!I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,989 #40 February 12, 2007 >A single frame employ's ALOT of 1's and 0's. You dont have to alter >all of them, just some of them to distort an image. Correct. And indeed tapes often experience single bit errors due to dust or tape defects - which is why the DV format includes error correction. If the defects (or an erasure) overwhelms the error correction algorithm, you will get massive visible dropouts - most often a rectangular chunk of the screen that does not update or goes to a solid color. It's not like there will be an imperceptible softening that you have to be an expert to see. (skyblue says) >My concern is what the affect will be with a whole plane load full of >rigs with magnets. A tape held up to a magnet will experience far more B field (i.e. magnetic flux in gauss) than a tape in a plane full of magnets, all farther away. >Would that magnetic field be strong enough to mess with the >Cypres, video cameras, avionics, etc... Cypres - no. You'd have to move the magnet fast enough to create an induced voltage sufficient to overwhelm the unit's shielding, which is very hard to do. Avionics - if the aircraft includes a magnetometer, it will affect it (it's designed to detect small areas of magnetism.) The only aircraft I know of that use these are research aircraft and sub hunters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 9 #41 February 12, 2007 QuoteThese, I was told by Bill, will not lose their magneism. They are rare earth magnets, not metal ones. They are basically powder held together by epoxy and are said to hold their magnetic power for the life of the magnet. Ah! That Bill Booth guy, he's pretty smart!! Guess that's why he gets paid the Big Bucks! Anyway, it will be interesting to see how these new magnetic riser covers play out and how Mx free they are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #42 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteThese, I was told by Bill, will not lose their magneism. They are rare earth magnets, not metal ones. They are basically powder held together by epoxy and are said to hold their magnetic power for the life of the magnet. Ah! That Bill Booth guy, he's pretty smart!! Guess that's why he gets paid the Big Bucks! Anyway, it will be interesting to see how these new magnetic riser covers play out and how Mx free they are... I think they are a joke.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #43 February 12, 2007 In order to receive a patent one must "reduce to practice". Atair fully reduced the invention to practice, performing the r&d and even fielding several military products. This was long before the RWS development effort (now UPT). Bill Booth apparently did some development work without first checking for prior art. When he did, he became aware of our prior work. We were then contacted by Bill Booth to license our technology. Bill even though apparently having hit on the idea independently but after us, had not fully reduced it to practice. We gave him the technique for installing the magnets which prevents negative effects from cracking, among other small details. Many people do not realize that the language used in patents represents a specific legal format and legal requirements. for example: proper claims are to be written much akin to a Venn diagram: starting all encompassing and then getting narrower. Because a patent uses broad language, does not in any way mean that detailled designs and development were not done. we were in no way required to licensed the technology to Bill, but decided to because we felt he would do it justice and UPT assured us they would widely implement it into the industry, creating a new standard. As we are primarialy focused on military work UPT's reach in the sport industry interested us, as did the good will and recognition they promised to create for Atair. I hope everyone will enjoy the feature on UPT's new rigs. Sincerely,Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skytash 0 #44 February 12, 2007 QuoteThese, I was told by Bill, will not lose their magneism. They are rare earth magnets, not metal ones. They are basically powder held together by epoxy and are said to hold their magnetic power for the life of the magnet. How long is the life of a magnet? It's one of those questions I always ask myself when I see something with a 'lifetime guarantee'. Whose life? If mine, then ok, but how do you know how long I'll live, and what makes you think that once I'm in a cryogenic unit I'm not actually alive anymore especially when they wake me up in 200 years time? If it's the life of the item, then whay-hey, what does that mean? If it breaks after 3 months I could just be told 'well that's the life of that item m'am, we did only guarantee if for the period of its life, here buy another.' tashDon't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites za_skydiver 0 #45 February 12, 2007 life time gaurantee is longer than you will live. And cryogenics is far enough into the future, that they can pretty much gaurantee that you won't live long enough, cryogenics or not, for it to be of concern. And earth magnets to me sounds like something that has been around a hell of a lot longer than any of us already, and will probably out last all of us anyway... Edit to add: I like the idea of the covers so much, that i am thinking of getting a UPT rig as my next purchase.Some dream of flying, i live the dream... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gontleman 0 #46 February 12, 2007 Quote Edit to add: I like the idea of the covers so much, that i am thinking of getting a UPT rig as my next purchase.As I was watching the video, I was feeling compelled this way as well Logically... if you're faced with the choice between riser covers that are more likely to contribute to injury, or less likely...... I'll take "What's less likely to hurt me" for $1000 Alex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,354 #47 February 12, 2007 Bill Booth has created a new company called Parachute Patents, Inc. It is owned by his two daughters. He said that he did this so that they could afford to get him into a good old folk's home someday. He also said that UPT pays for the licensing from PP, Inc. just like any other company would. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #48 February 12, 2007 I really want to make sure it won't be an issue with my CREEPS. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=47448;Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #49 February 13, 2007 Lifetime guarantee relates to the life of the item sold. For harness/container systems, that's normally 20 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites darkwing 5 #50 February 13, 2007 -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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NewGuy2005 53 #32 February 12, 2007 QuoteI'd be more worried about the flap adhering to the side of an aircraft than I'd be worried about DV or HDV tape. Magnets won't stick to aluminum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #33 February 12, 2007 Magnets should make launching a 4-way much easier. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #34 February 12, 2007 If we equip all student jumpsuits with magnets, and AFF instructor's gloves with the opposite pole, catching spinning students would be easier. Back to reality.... To the poster about a otter load of magnets... I just don't see it effecting anything serious... Magnetic forces are not these long straight lines that add up with more magnets in the same plane. They dissipate with distance and have curves to the force... I am not good enough with physics to give a formal explanation without doing a lot of research to refresh my memory but before you guys all start theories based upon concerns, base it on science and testing, not Internet rumors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twibbles 0 #35 February 12, 2007 Quote Magnets should make launching a 4-way much easier. It's getting to the next point that'll get trickier Eugene "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #36 February 12, 2007 Quote Magnets won't stick to aluminum. That's my point. Slurp, there is a HUGE difference between distorting an image and softening it. Yes, under the right circumstances, such as your camera being on top of a pile of rigs with magnetic covers, and you were flipping the camera over and over, it's *possible* that a pile of rigs could generate enough strength to erase a few 1's and 0's, which would potentially leave you with some macroblocks or blocks of missing information. The picture wouldn't be softer, it would be unusable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GraficO 0 #37 February 12, 2007 OMG.... no say it isn't so!!!! planes being made of aluminum?!?!? no!!! It can't be!!!!! LOL... that just made my day! Thanks for starting off my Monday with a chuckle! GraficO "A Mind is a terrible thing to taste." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #38 February 12, 2007 Magnets won't stick to aluminum... *** But...in the movie 'Clear & Present Danger' the commando guys stuck an explosive charge via magnets to the side of that drug runner dudes airplane?! Are you telling me physics over rides the facts presented in the MOVIE?? (Steve Snyder pointed that out to me watching the movie together some years back, he said... "Wasteful Military spending, ya know how EXPENCIVE aluminum magnets ARE?!") ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #39 February 12, 2007 QuoteHe told me that the only significant problem seemed to be with a magnetic compass in say a 182, with the jumper facing rear in the student position. That's assuming you own one of the three 182 jump planes in North America that has a working compass! What else does it do? Make the fuel tanks read accurately too? Maybe it can stop that DG from spinning at mach 2 Ahhhhh...... sorry, I guess you have to know the 182 to get those jokes! My apologies to all the confused jumpers who think a king air is cramped. The long and the short of it is that I don't think it's that big an issue even if it does affect the compass. An experienced pilot should know the topography well enough that the compass is not an issue and if he does need a compass, he shouldn't have gotten into IFR conditions. Love the magnets, like velcro that doesn't wear out or damage your risers and lines!I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #40 February 12, 2007 >A single frame employ's ALOT of 1's and 0's. You dont have to alter >all of them, just some of them to distort an image. Correct. And indeed tapes often experience single bit errors due to dust or tape defects - which is why the DV format includes error correction. If the defects (or an erasure) overwhelms the error correction algorithm, you will get massive visible dropouts - most often a rectangular chunk of the screen that does not update or goes to a solid color. It's not like there will be an imperceptible softening that you have to be an expert to see. (skyblue says) >My concern is what the affect will be with a whole plane load full of >rigs with magnets. A tape held up to a magnet will experience far more B field (i.e. magnetic flux in gauss) than a tape in a plane full of magnets, all farther away. >Would that magnetic field be strong enough to mess with the >Cypres, video cameras, avionics, etc... Cypres - no. You'd have to move the magnet fast enough to create an induced voltage sufficient to overwhelm the unit's shielding, which is very hard to do. Avionics - if the aircraft includes a magnetometer, it will affect it (it's designed to detect small areas of magnetism.) The only aircraft I know of that use these are research aircraft and sub hunters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #41 February 12, 2007 QuoteThese, I was told by Bill, will not lose their magneism. They are rare earth magnets, not metal ones. They are basically powder held together by epoxy and are said to hold their magnetic power for the life of the magnet. Ah! That Bill Booth guy, he's pretty smart!! Guess that's why he gets paid the Big Bucks! Anyway, it will be interesting to see how these new magnetic riser covers play out and how Mx free they are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #42 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteThese, I was told by Bill, will not lose their magneism. They are rare earth magnets, not metal ones. They are basically powder held together by epoxy and are said to hold their magnetic power for the life of the magnet. Ah! That Bill Booth guy, he's pretty smart!! Guess that's why he gets paid the Big Bucks! Anyway, it will be interesting to see how these new magnetic riser covers play out and how Mx free they are... I think they are a joke.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #43 February 12, 2007 In order to receive a patent one must "reduce to practice". Atair fully reduced the invention to practice, performing the r&d and even fielding several military products. This was long before the RWS development effort (now UPT). Bill Booth apparently did some development work without first checking for prior art. When he did, he became aware of our prior work. We were then contacted by Bill Booth to license our technology. Bill even though apparently having hit on the idea independently but after us, had not fully reduced it to practice. We gave him the technique for installing the magnets which prevents negative effects from cracking, among other small details. Many people do not realize that the language used in patents represents a specific legal format and legal requirements. for example: proper claims are to be written much akin to a Venn diagram: starting all encompassing and then getting narrower. Because a patent uses broad language, does not in any way mean that detailled designs and development were not done. we were in no way required to licensed the technology to Bill, but decided to because we felt he would do it justice and UPT assured us they would widely implement it into the industry, creating a new standard. As we are primarialy focused on military work UPT's reach in the sport industry interested us, as did the good will and recognition they promised to create for Atair. I hope everyone will enjoy the feature on UPT's new rigs. Sincerely,Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skytash 0 #44 February 12, 2007 QuoteThese, I was told by Bill, will not lose their magneism. They are rare earth magnets, not metal ones. They are basically powder held together by epoxy and are said to hold their magnetic power for the life of the magnet. How long is the life of a magnet? It's one of those questions I always ask myself when I see something with a 'lifetime guarantee'. Whose life? If mine, then ok, but how do you know how long I'll live, and what makes you think that once I'm in a cryogenic unit I'm not actually alive anymore especially when they wake me up in 200 years time? If it's the life of the item, then whay-hey, what does that mean? If it breaks after 3 months I could just be told 'well that's the life of that item m'am, we did only guarantee if for the period of its life, here buy another.' tashDon't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
za_skydiver 0 #45 February 12, 2007 life time gaurantee is longer than you will live. And cryogenics is far enough into the future, that they can pretty much gaurantee that you won't live long enough, cryogenics or not, for it to be of concern. And earth magnets to me sounds like something that has been around a hell of a lot longer than any of us already, and will probably out last all of us anyway... Edit to add: I like the idea of the covers so much, that i am thinking of getting a UPT rig as my next purchase.Some dream of flying, i live the dream... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gontleman 0 #46 February 12, 2007 Quote Edit to add: I like the idea of the covers so much, that i am thinking of getting a UPT rig as my next purchase.As I was watching the video, I was feeling compelled this way as well Logically... if you're faced with the choice between riser covers that are more likely to contribute to injury, or less likely...... I'll take "What's less likely to hurt me" for $1000 Alex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,354 #47 February 12, 2007 Bill Booth has created a new company called Parachute Patents, Inc. It is owned by his two daughters. He said that he did this so that they could afford to get him into a good old folk's home someday. He also said that UPT pays for the licensing from PP, Inc. just like any other company would. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #48 February 12, 2007 I really want to make sure it won't be an issue with my CREEPS. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=47448;Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #49 February 13, 2007 Lifetime guarantee relates to the life of the item sold. For harness/container systems, that's normally 20 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #50 February 13, 2007 -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
