Spinletto Mal & RSL

[krkarl 0]

I currently fly a Stiletto and was wondering if or when it suddenly decides to behave like the stories say and becomes a spinning mal, would it be advised to disconnect the RSL before cutting away?

Also I see on these forums people speak of flying the opening. What exactly does this mean and is beneficial to Stilettos or could it just make things worse if not flown correctly?

Blue Skies

[AggieDave 6]

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becomes a spinning mal, would it be advised to disconnect the RSL before cutting away

Dude, you're not going to have the time and even with a larger canopy, like a 170, the spin rate, decent rate and the building g-forces will surprise you.

If you're worried about it, you should really rethink the canopy choice at under 150 jumps. Actually, you should really rethink the canopy choice anyways.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[surfbum5412 0]

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I currently fly a Stiletto and was wondering if or when it suddenly decides to behave like the stories say and becomes a spinning mal, would it be advised to disconnect the RSL before cutting away?

Also I see on these forums people speak of flying the opening. What exactly does this mean and is beneficial to Stilettos or could it just make things worse if not flown correctly?

Blue Skies

1. Disconnect the RSL? Then why do you have an RSL? Hahahahahah. I jump with an RSL, and that type of mal situation is exactly why I have one.

2. Flying the opening means maintaining a good body position while getting into the saddle and maintaining your weight distribution as evenly as possible throughout the opening sequence.

[krkarl 0]

I figured with a spinning mal that once you cut away you would hardly be stable?

[wmw999 2,439]

Waiting to be stable after a cutaway has killed more than one jumper.

As you cut away, just arch and pull your reserve. That way if the RSL fails, you won't. I have two cutaways from a spinning main (Diablo) with no problems with an RSL. Anecdotal, but it's my anecdote.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[davelepka 4]

Leave your RSL connected, disconnect the Stiletto until you have a couple hundred more jumps.

"Flying an opening" is something you learn to do over the course of (here it comes) a couple hundred jumps. That's why in the begining you jump canopies that would open straight with a sack of potatos in the harness.

Once you become less of a potato, you can jump a less stable canopy, because that's what the Stiletto is, a canopy with very little stability on the roll axis. Good if you know what to do with it, a real handfull if you don't.

[Gato 0]

Just as a side note, I've seen a few shredded hands from people trying to "fly" their opening too soon.

To the OP: DId someone recommend the Stiletto to you, or what? I'm just curious to know how you went about getting one.

T.I.N.S.

[surfbum5412 0]

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Leave your RSL connected, disconnect the Stiletto until you have a couple hundred more jumps.

LMAO! greatest comment I have seen in a while. Hahahaha.

[format 1]

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LMAO! greatest comment I have seen in a while. Hahahaha.

wtf - WHOLE post is serious inspiration!

happens obviously - people do change

What goes around, comes later.

[pinkfairy 0]

I think you'll have just as much fun with an Aerodyne Pilot or even a PD 7 cell such as the Spectre. Wouldn't it be great to NOT have to worry about openings all the time? If you don't know how to fly an opening, maybe you shouldn't have a canopy that is known to require extra attention in the openings?

Take care!

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[skydiverbry 0]

I had 1336 jumps when I had a Stilletto.350 jumps on the canopy it's self

I had the spinning mal.You at 114 jumps should just get rid of that canopy!!!

Bry

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[mrbiceps 0]

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Leave your RSL connected, disconnect the Stiletto until you have a couple hundred more jumps.

LMAO! greatest comment I have seen in a while. Hahahaha.

that is dam funny.

[councilman24 37]

This isn't really a silly question, expecially 15 years ago.

This is the kind of decision and action that Mr. Booth PROMOTED before he believed he had a better mouse trap.

Bill always used to say that having a RSL ment adding one more step to an emergency procedure, decided whether or not to release the RSL before cutting away. He published a paper explaining this position. (No I don't have it electronicly but it is in my files somewhere.) Back before RSL's were standard I used to keep it around to give to newbies for the 'other' side of the argument. I was always a supporter of RSL's.

Bill, I don't know if you still support trying to release the RSL before cutting away from a spinning malfunction if it isn't a skyhook or not. I expect with smaller, more radical canopies that position may have changed.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gravitysurfer 0]

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This is the kind of decision and action that Mr. Booth PROMOTED before he believed he had a better mouse trap.

Bill always used to say that having a RSL ment adding one more step to an emergency procedure, decided whether or not to release the RSL before cutting away. .

And Bill knows steps (attached)

aloha.

[riggerrob 643]

Disconnecting an RSL - in the middle of a malfunction - is silly because it wastes time and altitude.

1/3 of the victims - in USPA's annual fatality summary - used to be "main malfunction handled improperly." Many victims cutaway, then wasted time and altitude, struggling to get stable, before pulling their reserve ripcords. Far too many victims achieved line stretch at impact.
Part of the problem is that a spinning main malfunction can quickly tubble your inner ear so badly that you would not recognise stabilty until 20 or 30 seconds after you get belly to earth. Unfortunately, the ground often interfers in less than 30 seconds!

On a positive note: RSLs deploy the reserve pilot chute at the best possible time - typically a half second after your main risers release - and long before you can tumble badly enough to interfer with reserve deployment.

On a sarcastic note: if you worry about line twists on your reserve, you bought too small a reserve.

Sorry if my words sound harsh, but I watched my student almost die - without an RSL - back in 1984, and I have been a staunch supporter of RSLs ever since. Now I am too old and grumpy to change my opinion!
Humpf!

[riggerrob 643]

"... flying the opening."

........................................................................

In the beginning, "flying the opening" means keeping your shoulders and hips square to the wind, to avoid uneven risers, which can cause a canopy to start turning part way through the opening sequence.

An advanced version of "flying the opening" means keeping your eyes open and seeing if the canopy starts turning during the opening sequence, then quickly dipping the opposite shoulder or hip to steer the canopy back onto its original heading.
This concept will make a lot more sense after you have practiced "leg turns" under a fully inflated main.

Another version of "flying the opening" involves grabbing the rear risers and steering the canopy back onto its original heading.
Again, this concept will make more sense after you have practiced rear riser turns under a fully inflated main canopy.

[ufk22 33]

50 jumps a year, less than 500 jumps, Stelletto 150..........
What to do with your RSL isn't the issue here.

Anyway, most spinners with the stelletto involve a popped toggle/one side released brake. I've only had one, but the G-forces build damn fast. Get your toggle pulled or cut away, whatever, but don't take the time to play with anything else, or you will be subjected to enough G's that doing anything will become very difficult.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[kkeenan 14]

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I currently fly a Stiletto ...

Dear krkarl,
I hope that you are getting the message in the replies that the overwhelming opinion here is that you should rethink the safety of jumping this canopy at your experience level.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[dks13827 3]

Rob you are so right about disorientation in a spinning malfunction.. It is deadly,, everyone: It is deadly !!!!!!!! If you start spinning badly, you better get !!! I had this one time on a scuba dive in heavy, dangerous surf... and I am lucky to be here. Years ago with a T-10 malfunction, when it started to spin, that did it,, I chopped within .5 seconds. I was not going to play that game. No future in it.

[Douggarr 6]

it is refreshing to see the very experienced jumpers check in on this thread and say what was immediately on my mind -- what in the world is someone with 114 jumps doing jumping such a high-performance canopy? This is like someone who just learned to drive getting behind the wheel of a Ferrari.

Postscript on the RSL isssue: In the old days, a few jumpers had the big bulky hog backs with one-shot canopy releases (the old Capewell system). Many had RSLs attached by riggers. But since you had to pull both covers all the way down to jettison the main, there were incidences were only one riser would be cut away during a malfunction. This could certainly be spooky (or worse) if the riser with the RSL went up and the other one didn't. The piggybackers disconnected the RSLs. Today, this isn't much of an issue given the very reliable 3-ring canopy releases.

SCR-442, SCS-202, CCR-870, SOS-1353

[airathanas 0]

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And Bill knows steps (attached)

"Bite or hit student" - haha gotta love it! It's sounds awful but it is the right thing to do to save your lives!

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[apogee77 0]

ok K...A...R...L... Got it entered in my dead pool.

Will

[robskydiv 0]

KrKarl, just a thought but it if (& And believe me, this is a BIG if" I had a Stiletto, I would have an RSL until I could get a SkyHook.

[winsor 236]

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I currently fly a Stiletto and was wondering if or when it suddenly decides to behave like the stories say and becomes a spinning mal, would it be advised to disconnect the RSL before cutting away?

Also I see on these forums people speak of flying the opening. What exactly does this mean and is beneficial to Stilettos or could it just make things worse if not flown correctly?

Blue Skies

My first reaction to this post is that it is of the "Nippleboy" flamebait ilk. Then I think of the people I have helped put on a backboard prior to the helicopter ride, and it seems that it may be serious.

Having survived a near-death experience under a spinning elliptical, I will state categorically that you are living on luck if you are jumping a Stiletto and asking these questions in earnest.

The adage about the Lord looking after drunks, fools and small children is all well and good, but works something less than 100% of the time. Don't bank on it.

As a first-generation elliptical, the Stiletto is singularly unforgiving of inappropriate control input. An avoidance turn on short final will result in the canopy hitting the ground before the jumper. Badly executed emergency procedures are likely to be fatal as well.

I have a bunch of hot canopies around, as well as some very low performance stuff. There are times when a canopy loaded over 2:1 is the hot tip, and other times where much over 1:1 is a very bad idea. The people I know who fly tiny crossbraced canopies brilliantly can also hit the disk every time with a huge accuracy canopy - and know when to pick one over the other.

Like some people who know zip about photography but have to have the most impressive camera out there, or the person who can't parallel park but has to have the car that Road and Track was drooling over, you have people who pick their parachute gear on the basis of how cool it sounds or looks. The problem is that the learning curve on the parachute system is not always surviveable.

There is a lot to be said for having a canopy whose limits you can explore without dying. Doing a snap turn with a Stiletto at 200 feet might occur in your last couple of minutes of life; this is not quite as likely under a Pilot (though spinning it up is still possible).

The only way to know where the line is is to cross it, and you need to be able to survive long enough to get back.

All things being considered, you should get some input from someone who has survived the sport for a while, and has a broad range of experience. A thousand jumps is not the same as a hundred jumps ten times.

Best of luck - you'll need it.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[hookitt 1]

If you want to aggravate the canopy during opening, grab the rear risers and help it fly straight. It will make it worse.

Shoulders level, hips level, once the canopy starts to sit you up put your legs together. If the canopy starts to turn, it's often best to just go with it then correct the heading immediately after it opens. If everyone has a 180 on opening and then turns back to heading right away, every one will still face away from each other.

If I help an opening at all, it's with harness input and that's only as the slider is coming down already. Otherwise I just follow the canopy and correct the heading as soon as it opens.

It's Spinetto by the way. It was coined mid 90s. The canopy was slightly more aggressive when it first came out. People were used to grabbing risers and steering an opening when indeed it was best to leave it alone. It also got the reputation due to the easily manipulated name and popularity of the Stiletto. That means there a LOT of them out there.

Simplified description of how to turn an airplane: Tilt the plane left or right, pull back on the stick. If you keep the stick pulled back, the turn continues.

Why I brought that up: To understand why line twists can be a problem, especially to the new eager inexperienced Stiletto pilot, try this. Leave the brakes set after opening. Pull one rear riser down to induce a relatively quick turn. Let it go. It will continue to spiral until you stop it. If you have line twists and the canopy is spiraling, you may or may not be able to get out of them and correct the problem because the tail is pulled down keeping the canopy turning as it's tilted to one side.

The problem is magnified if the canopy is out of trim and especially if the brake lines have shrunk several inches. I've cut away from 1 1/2 line twists. Yep, 1 1/2. I've also had about 8 and the canopy flew straight. To get out of it I just waited for me to unwind. Good times.

Many canopies will do that.

RSL. Leave it on don't tuck up when you cut away. Just basically arch and it will do it's job. Remember that if you're rolled forward looking at your handles, you are de-arched. Chances are you're going to continue to flip that direction. Fight the urge to just cutaway de-arched. Grab pull and arch at the same time. Your luck will vary.

I do not use an RSL, My cutaway and reserve pull in a timely manner is 100%. however I've had friends who I wish did have them.

You shouldn't be jumping a Stiletto but since you are, don't believe for a minute that you have a clue yet. They turn fast when you ask them to even if you didn't mean to ask.

Good luck.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto