Beware of seller: Jay Barksdale (affanimal)

[Blink 1]

I'm not sure if this belongs here, but I'm not sure where it belongs.

Around mid October, I contacted a man named Jay Barksdale (affanimal), about a Javelin J-1 he was selling for $500: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=38570&d=1. I asked him many questions, from what is included, to the condition.

After receiving all the answers, I did not contact him again until the 21st of October. I sent him an email, offering him $450 shipped (an obvious lowball). He replied saying shipping was $35 to Canada, so he would do $535 shipped.

On the 22nd of October, I sent him another email, offering my final offer, of $500 shipped to Canada, he accepted, and asked for Paypal or M/O.

I chose M/O because I had no funds in my paypal account and had the M/O sent out either the 23rd or 24th.

I had heard nothing from him until the other day when I emailed him asking if he got it. He said yes, but was waiting for it to clear, and still need my $35 for shipping.

I don't know about the US, but in Canada money orders don't have to wait to be cleared, they can be cashed on the spot. The next thing I noticed, was he wanted $35 for shipping! After already agreeing to include it in the $500!

I emailed him telling him that, but he simply said "nope", and proceded to say if I didn't want to pay the shipping charges, I could "go fuck myself".

I tried telling him again, but he wouldn't listen, so I said send my money order back or I will be contacting your local polic for theft and mail fraud.

Now he is saying "I do not believe your bogus money order to be real, just like you".

I replied saying then there should be no problem with him returning it, and that if I didn't get an email by tonight saying it was mailed out, that I would infact be contacting the police.

[/rant]

Here is the original emails and replies.

Quote

Hahahahahah, well there is no problem returning it than. I still have proof of purchase and all receipts. I am ready to contact the police tonight if I do not hear it is in the mail.




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From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 5:06 PM
To: William Lane
Subject: RE: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



I do not believe your bogus money order to be real just like you.



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "William Lane"

Alright, please return the money.



address snipped



You can rest assured feedback will be left.



William




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From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:11 PM
To: William Lane
Subject: RE: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



listen, I do not want your 500 dollars, if you do not pay for shipping, I will return your money order.



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "William Lane"

If I dont have an email by tomorrow morning (8:00AM Atlantic), I will contact your local police, and file a report.



I don't want to do this anymore than you do, please let me know if Im getting a container, $500, or making a phone call.



William




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From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:22 PM
To: William Lane
Subject: RE: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



you listen to me ,you send me 535usd and I will ship, otherwise go fuck yourself.



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "William Lane"

It's your call, and feedback will be appropriately left.




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From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:38 PM
To: William Lane
Subject: RE: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



nope



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "William Lane"

What shipping fee are you waiting for? We agreed on $500 shipped, because I offered you $450 shipped, then you asked for $535 shipped, then I offered $500 shipped, you said fine, paypal or money order?



Will




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From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:34 AM
To: William Lane
Subject: RE: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



Still waiting for the m/o to clear and your shipping fee



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "William Lane"

Has the container been shipped?




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From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 11:16 PM
To: William Lane
Subject: RE: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



Yes, It is in waiting to see if it will clear, but I need from you 35.00 usd for shipping



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "William Lane"

Have you received the M/O yet?



Will




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From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 7:07 AM
To: William Lane
Subject: RE: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



xxx-xxx-xxxx



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "William Lane"

Also, what is your telephone number, I like to have this for security reasons. Thanks a bunch.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: October 22, 2006 4:59 PM
To: William Lane
Subject: RE: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



address snipped



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "William Lane"

ll do MoneyOrder, that way there are no fees to take care of. Send me your mailing address.




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From: affanimal@comcast.net [mailto:affanimal@comcast.net]
Sent: October 22, 2006 3:50 PM
To: lanew@rogers.com
Subject: Re: Dropzone.com Classifieds - Response to your Ad



ok, but paypal or money order only



-------------- Original message --------------
From: lanew@rogers.com

> Hi Jay Barksdale,
>
> On 22-Oct-2006 someone submitted their contact information in response to your
> ad in the Dropzone.com Classifieds. Please reply to this email to contact the
> person directly.
>
> Username => Blink
>
> URL => http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=38570&d=1
>
> Name => William
>
> FromEmail => lanew@rogers.com
>
> City => Riverview
>
> Country => Canada< /u5:place>
>
> Comments => If you'll take $500 shipped, I'll do that and should be a ble to have
> the money out on Tuesday (M/O). If yes, send me your mailing address.
>
> -----------------
> If you suspect this is a scam:
>
> 1) Visit the Security Forum to see if it has already been reported:
> http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?forum=44
> 2) If not, forward the entire email to abuse@dropzone.com

< /u20:country-region>

Edit: removed personal information - Craig

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

There are many money order scams. Most of the time the buyer is from outside the US. What happens is the bank will give you Cash for the money order right away. Then a couple of weeks later they find out it is bogus and take the money from your account. He could really think that you are trying to scam him. Don't know about the shipping thing though.

[pfloyd 0]

That sucks dude,

When I do buy a rig, I will have the seller send it to my home DZ 1st, then the DZO will not let me take the rig until the buyer phones him reporting that he indeed got the money that I sent him. This way there is a middle man involved and both parties involved can feel better about the transaction. If the seller wont accept this arrangement than I would assume it is a scam.

Better luck next time, and I hope you get your money back.

My drinking team has a skydiving problem

[Vectracide 0]

If I were you, I would do everything nicely to get your money back. You do not want to deal with a person that has this kind of attitude. For all you know, you will not be getting what you paid for on top of having to pay him another $35 bucks. I would suggest that you contact him using the phone and not email, as there is no emotional inflection felt in email, and things can come across the wrong way. Unless you deal with this very carefully, you might not receive a damn thing, and be out of $500 to top it off. He's got all the cards unfortunately, so kiss his ass until you have a rig or your money.

------------------------------

Controlled and Deliberate.....

[Blink 1]

Well hopefully I won't be out of my money, I ketp all receipts, including the carbon copy of the money order, but have received nothing. Like I told him, I will probably contact the police tonight.

Is there anyone in the Independence, Missouri area? Perhaps someone that knows who he is?

[Vectracide 0]

I rarely deal with money orders, but have you contacted the bank where it was issued and found out what if anything they can do to cancel the money order?

------------------------------

Controlled and Deliberate.....

[wrespess 0]

I really don't have much pity for you. You sent $500 to someone you never met in another country with your only real recourse being a post on DZ.com. Why not use a local DZ or rigger as an escrow?

[Cloudburst 0]

Quote

you listen to me ,you send me 535usd and I will ship, otherwise go fuck yourself.

laughing my socks off nice and short and to the point

you've been well and truly mugged off mate !!!!

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

you listen to me ,you send me 535usd and I will ship, otherwise go fuck yourself

Sounds like business between professionals.

[WatchYourStep 0]

Blink that sucks. If you're looking for him contact the local DZs and talk to the DZOs. The Kansas City area is small enough that most everyone knows everyone.

Contact
Jen Sharp at Skydive Kansas
Chris Hall at Skydive Kansas City
Tom Dolphin at Missouri River Valley
Chris Armstrong at K-State Parachute Club
Paul Ericksmon (SP?) at Kansas City Skydiving Center

There phone numbers can all be found in the Dropzone section. KSUPC and Skydive Kansas are listed in Kansas. The other three (I believe) are listed in Missouri.

Hopefully one of those five will know him.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[steveorino 7]

DZOs are able to verify License #s. Have your DZO check his D# (D-17671) to see if he is legit. Go from there.

Good luck, my neighbor sent $3000 to someone he didn't know trying to buy a Harley on Ebay. In the future use the DZO or rigger as an in between. That is common practice among skydivers.

steveOrino

[popsjumper 2]

William,
I find it hard to sympathize. The only saving grace is that you are relatively new to skydiving. But even so, sending $$$ to an unknown is just setting yourself up as the patsy in any business transaction.

Too much info has been posted here and elsewhere on how to effectively handle these situations as already has been said by a couple of others.

Hope you get your money back and use an escrow in the future.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Cloudburst 0]

i've got a javelin container you can buy, it's yours for 3,500 dollars just send me the money via paypal and we'll say no more about it

mums the word, this is just between you and me, yeah

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Reading the exchange it seems both are scared they got scammed and so treating each other that way.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[dzolloyd 0]

The D number is registered to Jay Barksdale, Central Region. However his USPA membership and all ratings expired November 30, 2005.

GET SOME, altitude!

[Vectracide 0]

I'm assuming that you didn't want to post that to me, but to blink.

Aside from that, its unfortunate how many of you are telling blink that hes getting what he deserved, and that you have to remorse for his situation....almost like he deserved this. Whatever happened to trying to help out a fellow skydiver with some kind of advice that he can actually use? Try a little less judgement, and a little more assistance if you have anything to offer.

If blink was one of the regular "popular" DZ.Commers, a hench party would have already be formed and Jay Barksdale's DZ would have been hounded by phonecallers forcing Jay to come clean. I've see it happen before......but only for the "popular" ones. Shame.

------------------------------

Controlled and Deliberate.....

[Armour666 0]

My wife works for at TD Bank she told me a money order is credited right away to the depositer from the deposters own bank. It is then sent to the clearing house to have the funds from the issuing bank or instution to transfer the money from them to your bank. This can take up to 10 business days to be completed. If at that stage it turns out it's a fraud the bank comes back to the depositer and removes that money from the deposters account.

Money orders have been used in a lot of fraud lately because of people impression that they are as good as cash.

People get a money order thinking it good like cash ship out the items then find out the bank as taken their money back.

So yes it resonable to and advisable to wait till it clears on a money order unless you are depositing to same bank as it was drawen from so it can be instantly comfirmed if it's valid or not.

Hope it all works out in the end for you.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[Blink 1]

An update for everyone.

Thanks to everyone that has posted useful information and tips!

I've contacted several peopl aroudn the Kansas area all vouching for him that he is a credible guy.

I am going to wait for another week (10 business days), to see if it'll clear, if not, we'll take it from there.

Apparently his bank thinks the money order is a fraud, and had sent it to the Feds for investigation. I don't have any idea why, I've NEVER had a problem with people cashing money orders in the US before, except the first time I used one, and didn't ask for an "International M/O".

By the way, to whoever said I should know better to send money around, I have had 150+ transactions over the internet, with only 1 of them going sour (I had shipped something, and it got lost in the mail, had to claim insurance).

popsjumper: Thanks you for your insiteful post! I wasn't asking how to handle the situation, I asked if anyone knew him, and I posted the situation I was in, just to let people know what was going on and that buyers should be aware (not so true anymore, but when Ithought I was getting scammed)..

Thanks again everyone for your help! I'll update in a week or two.

[peckerhead 0]

I bought a reserve from Jay a few months ago and we settled on a price + shipping. I sent him the money and he sent me the reserve no problems.

It was a sweet deal on a PD reserve and he shipped immediately. It is in my container right now.

Sounds like you need to pay for the shipping and stop bitching.

[ladyskydiver 0]

Quote

Sounds like you need to pay for the shipping and stop bitching.

If the agreed on price included shipping, no he should not have to pay for it. And from his post above, it looks like the price included shipping.

For the guy to now hold out for shipping costs - not good business practice.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[peckerhead 0]

A cut and paste from private emails proves nothing.

I have done business with the guy and he was totally up front and professional.

There are two sides to every story. Jay may not have agreed to cover shipping. In fact he may have not been paid at all.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

A cut and paste from private emails proves nothing.

I have done business with the guy and he was totally up front and professional.

There are two sides to every story. Jay may not have agreed to cover shipping. In fact he may have not been paid at all.

Well since you are in so much upport of Jay why not get him to give HIS side to the story seems pretty eay to resolve if there has been a miscommuntcation and not just someone being an arse.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[kingbunky 3]

Quote

I'm assuming that you didn't want to post that to me, but to blink.

Aside from that, its unfortunate how many of you are telling blink that hes getting what he deserved, and that you have to remorse for his situation....almost like he deserved this. Whatever happened to trying to help out a fellow skydiver with some kind of advice that he can actually use? Try a little less judgement, and a little more assistance if you have anything to offer.

If blink was one of the regular "popular" DZ.Commers, a hench party would have already be formed and Jay Barksdale's DZ would have been hounded by phonecallers forcing Jay to come clean. I've see it happen before......but only for the "popular" ones. Shame.

well put.
i'm not a well-known skydiver, i'm not even one of the 'cool kids' from dizzy.com, but i believe that if william said he sent a money order, then he sent a money order. i also know that banks can and will drag things out as long as they can because until they honour the money order, they have william's money in their pocket and therefore have no real interest in hurrying. if the seller says he won't ship until he gets the money, fair enough. if the original agreement included shipping and now he's holding out for shipping, shame on him.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001