Do you jump with hard riser inserts for the excess cutaway cable?

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Pretty simple poll here. This poll stemmed from another one of my posts, I'm curious what the actual numbers are because I've never seen/noticed anyone with hard risers before. Mind you I haven't invested that much time into it either.

Thanks

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[tr027 0]

I have no idea what you mean about the excess cable, but I like them cause I fly a sporty canopy.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[DougH 270]

Yes, just like most jumpers with new risers, or new rigs.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

I'm not entirely sure you know what I mean. Basically, after your cutaway cable goes through the 3 rings it feeds into your risers right? That excess cable in the risers can get locked in there when your canopy has major linetwists. Essentially, you are completely unable to cut-away.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

You may think that but from the poll its not looking entirely that way. Mind you I don;t know what dates of gear everyone jumps.

I jump a Javelin Odyssey manufactured in 2002 or 2003 (not positive) and I do not have riser inserts.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[sundevil777 102]

Some think that the std/wide risers are less vulnerable to the problem.

I wonder if there is anything to back up that assertion.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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Pretty simple poll here. This poll stemmed from another one of my posts, I'm curious what the actual numbers are because I've never seen/noticed anyone with hard risers before. Mind you I haven't invested that much time into it either.

Thanks

Chris

... what if I have them on my new rig, but not my old rig... can I vote "Yes and No"???



Actually, Chris, IMO, hard cable housings in the main risers to stow the extra cut-away cable length are a good thing... 110% necessary... No... but still a good thing.

Same thing, different words, several evolutions in the sport / gear (Type 17 risers +Smaller / Highly loaded / High Performance canopies = potential for a violent spinning mal with serious riser twists = Increased cut-away forces... to name a few) basically brought about the theory & implementation of hard cable housings in the main risers for the extra cut-away cable length.

Do they 100% guarantee you'll never have a hard cut-away under a spinning mal? No.

Do they increase your chances of being able to cut-away from a spinning mal since they're there to help prevent that extra cut-away cable length from being "locked in" twisted up risers... especially Type 17s? Yes... IMO.

Yes, they also add a slight bit of additional complexity to your gear that you have to be mindful of... are they manufactured correctly?... is the extra cut-away cable length inserted correctly (i.e. inside the hard cable housing and not in-between it and the fabric sleeve?)... however, regarding the second one, someone who cannot take the brief amount of time to verify that when hooking up their main or doing a gear check for themselves is too stupid to live.

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I jump a Javelin Odyssey manufactured in 2002 or 2003 (not positive) and I do not have riser inserts.

I take it you bought that rig used?? Are your main risers Type 17? (skinny ones) Do you have any idea how many jumps the main risers have on them if they are Type 17s? You'll get lots of arguements and advice one way or the other, but many folks (myself included) replace Type 17 risers after about 500 jumps or about when ever they do a line kit on their canopy. If you were to call up Sunpath for a new set of main risers now, you'd get ones with hard cable housings in them.

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...manufactured in 2002 or 2003 (not positive)...

One more OBTW... next time your at the DZ... have a rigger or experienced jumper show you where the packing data card and manufacture's label is on your rig... or go look at it know if you know where it is... then you can see and be positive when your rig was built!

I bought my Jav in 03 and it came with Type17 main risers with hard cable housings in them. I suspect yours is maybe an 02... or maybe you've got Type 8 main risers?... or, if you did buy the rig used, the main risers are not original?

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hi ZigZag,

I'm 123.742% sure that the risers are simply not stock. I bought the rig used with 55 jumps. I have loked at the reserve packing card and know it is 2002 or 2003, I just can't remember right now. My risers are Type 17, but they are also both left risers (RSL rings on both). My rig is 100% stainless steel, except the riser rings. All that tells me that they are not factory, plus the fact that I do not have hard housings.

I am likely going to buy a new set of risers so I know how many jumps they have, so I can have stainless rings, and to get rid of the right riser RSL connection, along with getting the hard housings.

Thanks

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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...My risers are Type 17, but they are also both left risers (RSL rings on both)...

If they are risers made by JumpShack... e.g. Racer... then they would have RSL rings on both risers and not really both "lefts" since their RSL system hooks to BOTH risers when on a Racer... BLACK DEATH... IMO... but that, they say, is a different story.

[pilotdave 0]

Yes on my Vector3, no on my Reflex. I definitely think they're good to have and wouldn't order a new rig or risers without em, but I don't jump highly loaded canopies and my canopies have always flown nice and straight in line twists. (I'm just asking for my first cutaway, aren't I?).

Dave

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

That would make sense... Maybe they are Racer risers. I understand why that they were thought to be from Jumpshack.

I'm just not totally convinced that my Spectre 135 loaded at about 1:1 could spin up that hard. I mean I'm sure it could spin up and put tension, but in comparison to me jumping a Velo loaded at 2.5 would be a different story.

Nonetheless...I will be getting riser inserts installed, or just buy new risers. I feel much safer knowing that I can prevent something whether or not I think it can happen or not.

Thanks

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[kkeenan 14]

I think that any canopy, regardless of type or wingloading, can produce twists that may inhibit a cutaway. That said, I'm sure that the percentages favor highly-loaded elipticals for dangerous spin-ups.

I suggest riser inserts for any canopy. They are a harmless, passive system, which may not be needed for many jumps. But if they're needed, and you don't have them, you're toast.

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[JohnRich 4]

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Some think that the std/wide risers are less vulnerable to the problem.

I have wide risers, a big docile canopy, and teflon-coated cutaway cables. Thus, the hard riser inserts aren't really that vital to me.

The moral of this story: just because someone doesn't have the hard riser inserts, doesn't mean that they are courting disaster from cutaway cables trapped in twisted risers.

And the riser inserts can introduce their own set of problems that can cause disaster.

[labrys 0]

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And the riser inserts can introduce their own set of problems that can cause disaster.

What problems can they introduce? I have them and I'm curious about that statement. They seem very passive.

Owned by Remi #?

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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I'm just not totally convinced that my Spectre 135 loaded at about 1:1 could spin up that hard.

Well, I can't say as I strongly agree or disagree with that... but consider this...

1) I've experienced many an opening that "turns" and/or opens into a line twist or two and basically you just cuss and kick out the twists. No big deal. I've also experienced an SBOS (Spinning Ball of Shit) malfunction that started out felling like the former and my initial thought was "I got it, I got it", but then things went to a whole different order of magnitude with one side of my canopy collapsed and me spinning under it on my back in less then a revolution... "no, I don't got it"... believe me, until you are there, you can't understand it... cut-away and reserve ride... AND... while YES, I got the main canopy cutaway, the cutaway forces were more then what I anticipated and, admittedly, this was on my old rig that does not have inserts in the main risers, but is also equipped with Type 8 main risers... which leads me to #2...

2) I'm glad the experience I had ended up in a clean cutaway and uneventful reserve deployment and reserve ride... I'm glad the violence of the afore mentioned SBOS mal wasn't double or tripple in violence to where cutting away could have been an issue... in other words... you don't want to find out the hard way that you should have had main risers with hard housing inserts when you could have used them.

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...I will be getting riser inserts installed, or just buy new risers. I feel much safer knowing that I can prevent something whether or not I think it can happen or not.

Rather then trying to get them installed in your current main risers, its probably more practicle to just buy new ones built that way from the ground up.

[billvon 3,072]

>What problems can they introduce?

If the housings are thin (i.e. tubing) and are not tacked down well they can slip down the cable and jam the loop, preventing a cutaway. Most factory risers I've seen have decent housing retention systems so this isn't really an issue.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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And the riser inserts can introduce their own set of problems that can cause disaster.

What problems can they introduce? I have them and I'm curious about that statement. They seem very passive.

Yes and no. One example... there were some issues with one of the early "knock off", after market, imitations of the original RWS design where there was an unfinished "end" at the "top" of the insert which COULD (in theory) cut the yellow plastic of the excess cut-away cable if it extended past the end or the hard housing... i.e. create a potential "snag"... also, some designs have been "suspect" to the hard housing slipping out of the sleeve its in on the riser and, thus, interfering iwht the 3-Rings, maybe... just two examples, caveat... somewhat real, somewhat based in perception.

[mdrejhon 8]

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Pretty simple poll here. This poll stemmed from another one of my posts, I'm curious what the actual numbers are because I've never seen/noticed anyone with hard risers before. Mind you I haven't invested that much time into it either.

It may be because big parachutes don't usually need hard risers as badly as tiny parachutes -- they are far less likely to go into unrecoverable linetwists, and if they do, don't spin with as much G-Forces to keep it as tight. That being said, there's still a risk of hard cutaway on big parachutes. (Then again if I remember right, you're flying smaller one -- a 135 -- because of your ultra light weight...!)

Anyway, I bought new risers for my rig and I specifically requested hard inserts, to be on the safe side... And I am still on my 170.

[labrys 0]

Thanks to both of you. Almost nothing is a win/win, is it.

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

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also, some designs have been "suspect" to the hard housing slipping out of the sleeve its in on the riser and, thus, interfering iwht the 3-Rings

How does the housing get past the grommet to the 3-rings? Or do you mean it interferes at the grommet?

Owned by Remi #?

[diablopilot 2]

Yes. It's a simple preventative measure to a possible scary situation.

See VSE and the top notch risers they build if you need some.

www.velocityrigs.com

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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If you were to call up Sunpath for a new set of main risers now, you'd get ones with hard cable housings in them.

IIRC Sunpath still uses the plastic inserts, IMO not as effective as the metal hard housings.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

Basically what they were saying can happen is that the riser "housing" can release from the riser, slide down the cutaway cable towards the 3 rings and make it's way through the cutaway loop. So, when you pull the cutaway handle, it doesn't cutaway because you have the riser "housing" in the spot where the cutaway cable should be.

Not a good situation to be in, especially if one riser has this problem and the other doesn't. Thats when you fire your reserve and ope for the best.

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[JerryBaumchen 1,439]

Hi Chris,

Mike Turoff (I think he is 'Mikejumps' here on dizzy.com) did a very good presentation at PIA on this.

I do not remember all of the details and think his efforts, to date, are only with 1 3/4" wide risers.

Maybe someone can 'coax' him for some input here.

Jerry

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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If you were to call up Sunpath for a new set of main risers now, you'd get ones with hard cable housings in them.

IIRC Sunpath still uses the plastic inserts, IMO not as effective as the metal hard housings.

Interesting... I did not know that... ... guess I need to take a razor to my old Sunpath risers... and do an autopsy...