Motorcyles and Skydiving...

[Squeak 17]

I've been riding for over 20 years and your friend sounds like a total dick on the roads
if he is riding in shorts and jacket, ask him what is rationale for the jacket is

See if you can find some pictures of what gravel rash lookslike after an 50mph off (let alone 150mph). and send hime a few pamphlets from a Monumental stone mason asking him which headstone he wants.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[teogu 0]

Hi, I'm an italian boy, so my language is not so good... sorry. I read your post and I can say only a thing: his imprudence may be very dangerous for the others on the road, he can find a car with a family having babies on the car... Nobody knows what happen in this situation... Skydive is very different, in my opinion, we can rarely compromise the health of the others skydiver... however, i've got a motorbike too (Ducati!), and sometimes I go very fast too, but if I see that I can make an accident with other drivers or if I take with me a friend, I moderate my speed... it's a question of respect for the people's life.

I hope you understood the meaning of my answer.

Bye bye
Teo

[Royd 0]

Quote

intimation that anyone that wears shorts on a motorcycle 'AT ANY SPEED' is "careless" or responsible for the cost of your insurance.

No more so than a welder wearing a t-shirt, or a fireman working without his protective gear.

Leather gear will survive considerably more asphalt than your hide will.

[DSE 5]

Quote

Quote

intimation that anyone that wears shorts on a motorcycle 'AT ANY SPEED' is "careless" or responsible for the cost of your insurance.

No more so than a welder wearing a t-shirt, or a fireman working without his protective gear.

Leather gear will survive considerably more asphalt than your hide will.

Wow...that's all I can say...Motorcyclists that ride for fun without helmets or leather gear are "careless...." and they're responsible for people not being able to pay for their insurance, and they're comparable to people in the workplace not wearing protective gear for dangerous working environments.

It's all about how you approach the sport. Riding without a motorcycle license doesn't make you any less safe than a skydiver with 5000 jumps not having a D license. It does make him legal, just like you must have a USPA license to skydive at many DZ's. It's about the attitude. If you ride fast, pop wheelies, and engage in less than cautious behavior on the bike, whether it's motorized or not, you ought to be wearing protective gear. If you're a cautious, conservative rider, protective gear isn't nearly as important.
Given that 95% of my riding for example, is on desert highways, not local streets or busy freeways, my risk is exceptionally low by comparison to others that live in those areas. It's simply ridiculous to blanket comment that "riding with jeans and a Tshirt is careless."

Either way, it appears neither of you are riders so your comments are basically the same as a wuffo commenting on skydiving.

I guess I grew up in a different age. My mom doesn't cut my sandwiches for me any longer either. Fortunately, my state and other states in the West still allow us to be adults and choose what protective gear we wear.

[unformed 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

intimation that anyone that wears shorts on a motorcycle 'AT ANY SPEED' is "careless" or responsible for the cost of your insurance.

No more so than a welder wearing a t-shirt, or a fireman working without his protective gear.

Leather gear will survive considerably more asphalt than your hide will.

Wow...that's all I can say...Motorcyclists that ride for fun without helmets or leather gear are "careless...." and they're responsible for people not being able to pay for their insurance, and they're comparable to people in the workplace not wearing protective gear for dangerous working environments.

It's all about how you approach the sport. Riding without a motorcycle license doesn't make you any less safe than a skydiver with 5000 jumps not having a D license. It does make him legal, just like you must have a USPA license to skydive at many DZ's. It's about the attitude. If you ride fast, pop wheelies, and engage in less than cautious behavior on the bike, whether it's motorized or not, you ought to be wearing protective gear. If you're a cautious, conservative rider, protective gear isn't nearly as important.
Given that 95% of my riding for example, is on desert highways, not local streets or busy freeways, my risk is exceptionally low by comparison to others that live in those areas. It's simply ridiculous to blanket comment that "riding with jeans and a Tshirt is careless."

Either way, it appears neither of you are riders so your comments are basically the same as a wuffo commenting on skydiving.

I guess I grew up in a different age. My mom doesn't cut my sandwiches for me any longer either. Fortunately, my state and other states in the West still allow us to be adults and choose what protective gear we wear.

Thank christ for that. I've worn a helmet once, and I refuse to wear one ever again. I don't ride because it makes me look cool or do cool tricks or to prove I have a bigger dick. I ride because I enjoy doing it and wearing a helmet takes away from that, especially when I'm riding a smaller bike on rural roads. To have some asshat say I'm reckless without ever seeing me, what I ride, or how I ride, is pretty self-righteous of him, but that doesn't matter me as long it doesn't affect me.

At the same time, I've never raced or ridden recklessly. At some point I know I want to (race), but then my motivation would be different, the rush would be different, and the helmet wouldn't affect that. It would also be done responsibly on track or country roads with no one around.

However, I do know where this country is going, and that's right to legislating all danger away. Our fascist president just signed a law banning online gambling so people don't lose all of their money and cause problem to their families.

I'm just waiting for the day where they require everyone to wear diapers in case we accidentally piss our pants.

This ad space for sale.

[Douva 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

intimation that anyone that wears shorts on a motorcycle 'AT ANY SPEED' is "careless" or responsible for the cost of your insurance.

No more so than a welder wearing a t-shirt, or a fireman working without his protective gear.

Leather gear will survive considerably more asphalt than your hide will.

Wow...that's all I can say...Motorcyclists that ride for fun without helmets or leather gear are "careless...." and they're responsible for people not being able to pay for their insurance, and they're comparable to people in the workplace not wearing protective gear for dangerous working environments.

It's all about how you approach the sport. Riding without a motorcycle license doesn't make you any less safe than a skydiver with 5000 jumps not having a D license. It does make him legal, just like you must have a USPA license to skydive at many DZ's. It's about the attitude. If you ride fast, pop wheelies, and engage in less than cautious behavior on the bike, whether it's motorized or not, you ought to be wearing protective gear. If you're a cautious, conservative rider, protective gear isn't nearly as important.
Given that 95% of my riding for example, is on desert highways, not local streets or busy freeways, my risk is exceptionally low by comparison to others that live in those areas. It's simply ridiculous to blanket comment that "riding with jeans and a Tshirt is careless."

Either way, it appears neither of you are riders so your comments are basically the same as a wuffo commenting on skydiving.

I guess I grew up in a different age. My mom doesn't cut my sandwiches for me any longer either. Fortunately, my state and other states in the West still allow us to be adults and choose what protective gear we wear.

First of all, I am a rider. If you'd read my first post a little more closely, rather than selectively zeroing in on the stuff at which you thought you could take offense, you'd have seen where I said I've been riding for twelve years.

Secondly, just for the record, I never said riding in a T-shirt and jeans is careless; I said riding in a T-shirt and SHORTS is careless. Again, if you would slow down in your rush to be offended, you might see what people actually write.

Finally, I sometimes ride without a leather jacket in the heat of the summer, and I do occasionally ride without a helmet when I'm just making a short run to the store, and I've even been known to cruise around the block in a pair of shorts, on very rare occasions, but I accept when I do those things that I'm being a little bit careless, and I accept the risk, rather than deny it. Similarly, when I skydive without a helmet for a photo opportunity, I know I'm being a little careless, but I accept the risk.

Rather than trying to impugn our credibility, knock that chip off your shoulder, and look at what we're actually saying. Nobody in this thread, as far as I can recall, has said anything about helmet laws. The mere fact that you brought helmet laws into this discussion simply shows your own hang ups. Personally, I oppose any attempt to legislate personal responsibility, but I oppose such legislation in a rational, mature manner. I don't compare people to whuffos and use incoherent metaphors about my mom cutting the crust off my sandwiches.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[normiss 800]

I have been riding 2 wheeled bikes of varying sort for just over 30 years now...I've tried to keep my mouth shut at times like this although some have encouraged me to chime in...

Racing of any kind is for the track, it's easy and cheap to do if you want to do that..in a safe manner. Road racing of any kind is just plain dangerous and foolish.
Helments are personal choice (unless riding a bicycle in Florida as we have a law for that!!!???)
We should always wear protectective gear and clothing to provide as much protection as WE CHOOSE - I live in Florida - YOU try wearing leather in the summer (8 months a year btw).
Insurance is cheap if you're responsible - I have a $20,000 bike and it's a whopping $28 a month I think...
Motorcycles are all about freedom - if you ride one you know that...we accept and mitigate the risk to our own choice, preference, and liking.
Trying to legislate anything we humans chose to do is a waste of tax money and time in the courts...look at half the laws we have now...do they stop people from using drugs, speeding, stealing, prostitution...and on and on and on...

Those of you that are better than the general population of this planet are amazing...LEAVE ME AND MY LIFE THE FUCK ALONE! Quit trying to impose your tainted beliefs on the rest of us!

and here I thought this country was founded on freedom...ha!

ok...you can have your soapbox back now...

thank you!


ahhhhhhhh.....

[daremrc 0]

not judging anyone here but...


cotton jeans don't do squat if you dump at road-riding speeds. the cotton will likely tear, burn, or otherwise disintegrate very soon after you begin what you hope is your long slide to a gentle stop.

Leather, while abrasion resistant, provides 0 impact protection. think about trying to break the fall of your 150+ pound body and 350-800+ pound bike with your left kneecap or hip, and you suddenly wont be as worried about road rash.


Also, people haved bled to death from extreme road rash. Also, people have sustained 3rd degree burns not from the slide, but from having their limbs pinned to the hot, sunbaked asphalt while they lay there helpless under the machine.


again, everybody should do what they're comfortable doing, but on my last weastward excursion, I chose to wear a textile, armoured riding suit, even thru the deserts of Utaqh and Arizona. It may feel and look hot, but the suit actually helps your body from baking & dehydrating in the high wind & sun. I prefer to dump water down the inside of the jacket and also use a camelbak to stay cool & hydrated.

YMMV, but I couldn't help but add that after reading the debates of shorts vs jeans.


--edited to add, to the original poster, there is a very good book out there called 'Proficient Motorcycling' that describes in detail the technical aspects of motorcycling, as well as heavy-duty accident avoidance techniques. I hope your friend, although new to the bike world, can be humble enough to read it & hopefully glean some info from it. You can find it at most any Borders books, and I loan my copy to every friend of mine who shows interest in or buys a motorcycle.

Good judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement.

[Douva 0]

Quote

I have been riding 2 wheeled bikes of varying sort for just over 30 years now...I've tried to keep my mouth shut at times like this although some have encouraged me to chime in...

Racing of any kind is for the track, it's easy and cheap to do if you want to do that..in a safe manner. Road racing of any kind is just plain dangerous and foolish.
Helments are personal choice (unless riding a bicycle in Florida as we have a law for that!!!???)
We should always wear protectective gear and clothing to provide as much protection as WE CHOOSE - I live in Florida - YOU try wearing leather in the summer (8 months a year btw).
Insurance is cheap if you're responsible - I have a $20,000 bike and it's a whopping $28 a month I think...
Motorcycles are all about freedom - if you ride one you know that...we accept and mitigate the risk to our own choice, preference, and liking.
Trying to legislate anything we humans chose to do is a waste of tax money and time in the courts...look at half the laws we have now...do they stop people from using drugs, speeding, stealing, prostitution...and on and on and on...

Those of you that are better than the general population of this planet are amazing...LEAVE ME AND MY LIFE THE FUCK ALONE! Quit trying to impose your tainted beliefs on the rest of us!

and here I thought this country was founded on freedom...ha!

ok...you can have your soapbox back now...

thank you!


ahhhhhhhh.....

I couldn't agree with you more, but I'm not sure to whom exactly you're responding. The last time I checked, nobody in this thread was supporting "trying to legislate anything we humans chose to do." Perhaps you're responding to the same internal demons with which DSE seems to be struggling.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

Quote

not judging anyone here but...


cotton jeans don't do squat if you dump at road-riding speeds. the cotton will likely tear, burn, or otherwise disintegrate very soon after you begin what you hope is your long slide to a gentle stop.

Leather, while abrasion resistant, provides 0 impact protection. think about trying to break the fall of your 150+ pound body and 350-800+ pound bike with your left kneecap or hip, and you suddenly wont be as worried about road rash.


Also, people haved bled to death from extreme road rash. Also, people have sustained 3rd degree burns not from the slide, but from having their limbs pinned to the hot, sunbaked asphalt while they lay there helpless under the machine.


again, everybody should do what they're comfortable doing, but on my last weastward excursion, I chose to wear a textile, armoured riding suit, even thru the deserts of Utaqh and Arizona. It may feel and look hot, but the suit actually helps your body from baking & dehydrating in the high wind & sun. I prefer to dump water down the inside of the jacket and stay hydrated.

YMMV, but I couldn't help but add that after reading the debates of shorts vs jeans.


--edited to add, to the original poster, there is a very good book out there called 'Proficient Motorcycling' that describes in detail the technical aspects of motorcycling, as well as heavy-duty accident avoidance techniques. I hope your friend, although new to the bike world, can be humble enough to read it & hopefully glean some info from it. You can find it at most any Borders books, and I loan my copy to every friend of mine who shows interest in or buys a motorcycle.

I'll grant you that leathers or even armored riding gear are superior to jeans, but jeans are not completely useless. I laid a bike down about ten years ago, and my jeans took some of the wear that otherwise would have been imparted on my flesh. Also, jeans can make a nice barrier between a hot engine or exhaust pipe and flesh. I'll grant you that they don't compare to leathers or armored riding gear, but I still maintain that jeans are superior to shorts.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[daremrc 0]

Quote

I still maintain that jeans are superior to shorts.

for sure anything is better than nothing when it comes to skin-graft canidates

Good judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement.

[normiss 800]

funny...I don't view my personal choices in life as "internal demons". But as is typical of dz.com, one's opinion becomes the springboard of attack from others. I simply choose to not wear a helment sometimes for personal enjoyment reasons, and the subject was mentioned in this thread.

I also don't feel that reading a book will improve anyone's riding skills (as also mentioned in this thread). Take the AMA courses...they have a few different levels. There are also some wonderful courses taught by former motorcycle cops that can be very helpful.

But what do I know? I've only been riding most of my life....only down twice...both were not my fault, and no impact as I was able to avoid the problem that presented itself with careful control and decisions....and some nice protective gear. Jeans performed quite well - no mark on them and yet undergarments were shredded so they DO make a difference and the leather also prevented ANY abrasions. Replaced helment from first accident as it was cracked - second accident no helment worn...down at 45-50 mph.....
I think based on my 30 years of riding I can handle most situations...most...but there's always a first...that's why we call it risk.

[normiss 800]

and will SOMEONE PLEASE move this back to the womens' forum so I WON"T REPLY anymore????

better yet...isn't this up to SC level by now???

I also avoid THAT one like the fucking plague!!!!

[Douva 0]

Quote

funny...I don't view my personal choices in life as "internal demons". But as is typical of dz.com, one's opinion becomes the springboard of attack from others. I simply choose to not wear a helment sometimes for personal enjoyment reasons, and the subject was mentioned in this thread.

I also don't feel that reading a book will improve anyone's riding skills (as also mentioned in this thread). Take the AMA courses...they have a few different levels. There are also some wonderful courses taught by former motorcycle cops that can be very helpful.

But what do I know? I've only been riding most of my life....only down twice...both were not my fault, and no impact as I was able to avoid the problem that presented itself with careful control and decisions....and some nice protective gear. Jeans performed quite well - no mark on them and yet undergarments were shredded so they DO make a difference and the leather also prevented ANY abrasions. Replaced helment from first accident as it was cracked - second accident no helment worn...down at 45-50 mph.....
I think based on my 30 years of riding I can handle most situations...most...but there's always a first...that's why we call it risk.

When I referred to your "internal demons," I wasn't talking about your personal choices; I was talking about whatever unknown forces make you feel compelled to defend your position against helmet laws, even though nobody in this thread has challenged that position or said anything in support of helmet laws.

The only typical dz.com behavior I see is the way you are projecting a stance (pro helmet laws), for which you obviously have a great deal of disdain, onto people who have not made any statements supporting that stance.

I'd say your "internal demons" are most likely unresolved feelings of aggression toward supporters of helmet laws, and that's why you feel the need to project that aggression onto the innocent bystanders participating in this thread.

EDITED because SkymonkeyONE didn't think the post was very clear.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

That post didn't make a lot of sense.

[daremrc 0]

Quote

I also don't feel that reading a book will improve anyone's riding skills (as also mentioned in this thread). Take the AMA courses...they have a few different levels.

I'd have to largely disagree with you there.

IMO, cycling, as well as driving anything from a car, truck, airplane, or canopy, is a largely mental game. There is definately a physical and co-ordination aspect to all of them, but I think that is likely the easiest part to learn.

Learning to recognize that things like piles of leaves, pavement grooves, metal bridge decks are potentially lethal can all be done from the comfort of your easy chair. Not to discount your experience, but I also have been riding bikes on and off for my entire life, and I have put 65,000 miles on street bikes in the last 5 years alone. Given that, I learned some techniques from this book that I now can apply to my riding habits when actually on the bike. Like anything involving the level of risk that motorcycling, or skydiving, present.. You can never learn enough. I personally feel that the minute I decide that 'I know everything there is to about riding/driving/skydiving/flying/whatever', I become a danger to myself & potentially others.

Besides, who wants to learn the hands-on, hard way about the effects of cold tires on wet pavement? Not fun on the body or wallet. There is definately a hands-on component to learning any of these skills, but education is at least 50% and in my view, 75% of the battle.. I've always learned hand-eye co-ordination things very quickly and been a book-learner, so for someone else the scales may be set differently.

Good judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement.

[DSE 5]

Quote

The personal demons of which I speak are not your personal choices; the personal demons are whatever make you feel the need to defend a stance (against helmet laws) that nobody has challenged.

"As is typical of dz.com," you and DSE are projecting your own years of hurt feelings into a conversation where they are not relevant.

Demons? DEMONS? We don't gots no stinkin' demons 'round here...Wow! Guess I'd better see a priest or something. Jeans vs shorts make virtually zero difference at 75 mph. Wearing a helmet might make a difference.
Either way, my insurance company doesn't care which I wear; they'll be scraping me up the same way.
If demons are being projected, it's the blame which you assign to me and others that are apparently "careless" by wearing shorts, jeans, and no helmet, for your apparently expensive motorcycle and/or health insurance.
Demons or otherwise, I'm not responsible for your insurance problems. BTW, I have horses and land in San Marcos, and I broke my leg riding my horse while wearing shorts. Maybe my horses are more responsible for your healthcare/motorcycle insurance costs? And yes, I have a Texas helmet exemption tag.
As Normiss said, I think based on my 30 years of riding I can handle most situations...most...but there's always a first...that's why we call it risk.
Just don't blame me, us, or demons if you can't afford insurance or have issues with helmet laws.
No hurt feelings on my behalf, I simply feel you're a misinformed or seriously lost soul to suggest that wearing Tshirt/shorts on a motorcycle is careless or foolish. I do believe that I have a right to choose, and making that choice means I took care to make a decision. You might not agree with my decision, but it was one made with care based on riding conditions.
But I'll see a priest to have my demons exorcised...no worries. Or maybe I can just read a book and do it myself.

[Douva 0]

Quote

Quote

The personal demons of which I speak are not your personal choices; the personal demons are whatever make you feel the need to defend a stance (against helmet laws) that nobody has challenged.

"As is typical of dz.com," you and DSE are projecting your own years of hurt feelings into a conversation where they are not relevant.

Demons? Wow! Guess I'd better see a priest or something. Jeans vs shorts make virtually zero difference at 75 mph. Wearing a helmet might make a difference.
Either way, my insurance company doesn't care which I wear; they'll be scraping me up the same way.
If demons are being projected, it's the blame which you assign to me and others that are apparently "careless" by wearing shorts, jeans, and no helmet, for your apparently expensive motorcycle and/or health insurance.
Demons or otherwise, I'm not responsible for your insurance problems. BTW, I have horses and land in San Marcos, and I broke my leg riding my horse while wearing shorts. Maybe my horses are more responsible for your healthcare/motorcycle insurance costs? And yes, I have a Texas helmet exemption tag.
As Normiss said, I think based on my 30 years of riding I can handle most situations...most...but there's always a first...that's why we call it risk.
Just don't blame me, us, or demons if you can't afford insurance or have issues with helmet laws.
No hurt feelings on my behalf, I simply feel you're a misinformed or seriously lost soul to suggest that wearing Tshirt/shorts on a motorcycle is careless or foolish. I do believe that I have a right to choose, and making that choice means I took care to make a decision. You might not agree with my decision, but it was one made with care based on riding conditions.
But I'll see a priest to have my demons exorcised...no worries. Or maybe I can just read a book and do it myself.

Now THAT post didn't make a lot of sense.

As best I can tell, you're still trying to defend against an argument I never made, that your wearing shorts while riding somehow affects my insurance rates. Try re-reading the entire thread, but this time leave all your personal baggage out of it, and just read what people actually wrote.

Edited to add: My motorcycle insurance runs me about $250/year, just in case anyone is really curious.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[shropshire 0]

I agree.

I've been riding since '78.. I've had a few, crashed a few. I used to ride fast but now I have a Harley. I always wear a Full Face helmet, gloves, boots and armoured trousers & Jacket - That's my choice (the helmet is the law BTW but I still would anyway). If people choose not to, then I say let them.. It's their hide and when they come off it WILL hurt... They are not careless or stupid just different and I'm not going to loose sleep over them.

Just watch out and treat every other road user like they are going to kill you....... If they dont - BONUS, you get to go out again and have more fun.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[DSE 5]

Quote

Now THAT post didn't make a lot of sense.

As best I can tell, you're still trying to defend against an argument I never made, that your wearing shorts while riding somehow affects my insurance rates. Try re-reading the entire thread, but this time leave all your personal baggage out of it, and just read what people actually wrote.

The demonic yahoo...

Edited to add: My motorcycle insurance runs me about $250/year, just in case anyone is really curious.

you wrote: Yahoos like your friend are the reason it costs something like $2,000 a year to insure a sport bike and the reason I can't buy health insurance that covers me when I ride. "

Seems to me that's blaming riders that wear shorts for your lack of ability to purchase health insurance.
Must be those damn demons; they're making it difficult for me to understand your point.
Out! Damn demons! OUT!
An artist is a creature driven by demons. He doesn't know why they choose him and he's usually too busy to wonder why.
William Faulkner
I guess that's me. Too busy to put on pants.

[Douva 0]

Quote

Quote

Now THAT post didn't make a lot of sense.

As best I can tell, you're still trying to defend against an argument I never made, that your wearing shorts while riding somehow affects my insurance rates. Try re-reading the entire thread, but this time leave all your personal baggage out of it, and just read what people actually wrote.

The demonic yahoo...

Edited to add: My motorcycle insurance runs me about $250/year, just in case anyone is really curious.

you wrote: Yahoos like your friend are the reason it costs something like $2,000 a year to insure a sport bike and the reason I can't buy health insurance that covers me when I ride. "

Seems to me that's blaming riders that wear shorts for your lack of ability to purchase health insurance.
Must be those damn demons; they're making it difficult for me to understand your point.
Out! Damn demons! OUT!
An artist is a creature driven by demons. He doesn't know why they choose him and he's usually too busy to wonder why.
William Faulkner
I guess that's me. Too busy to put on pants.

Really? I don't see the words "Because he wears shorts when he rides" at the beginning of that quote. The discussion was about a guy who rides without a license, doing 150 mph on Houston's loop 610, popping wheelies on the highway, and riding in shorts. But of all that, you chose to latch onto the "riding in shorts" aspect.

Yeah, I criticized the guy for riding in shorts. I don't think riding in shorts is a good idea. I think it's "careless," as defined by the third definition in the American Heritage Dictionary--"Showing a lack of consideration." You're welcome to disagree, but quit trying to twist my words in an attempt to discredit my opinion of your actions.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[normiss 800]

excellent points...and wearing shorts doesn't make one careless...I remember the first year I went on the Key West Run....I bought shorts as soon as I got there! All the pairs I could find!
Fucking hot down there...plus the whopping 10mph you can do at best on the key REALLY runs a high risk of carelessness...chu no what I mean main??
Apparently some folks here have "demons" they insist on drudging up simply to argue...I'm too busy with life to argue opinions over simple choices we make. That's just another choice (demon?) I make...ain't worth the sweat off my balls to argue someone's choice...their life..their choice....

The MAIN reason motorcycle insurance is so high (especially if you're young AND riding a "donor bike") is the cost of trauma care at hospitals. I believe the current Florida helemt law is a joke...$10,000 insurance is all that's required to ride without a helment but the average er bill for a bike wreck will quintuple that amount....not that anybody said anything about helment laws, er costs, insurance, or the relative angle of sunspots on the earth's atmosphere...just some "demons" that come to mind in discussing the apparent carelessness we bikers have from making the choice to ride the way we want to ride...oh...and I carry a gun when I ride too...how fucking careless is THAT????

[Douva 0]

I don't like helmet laws any more than the next guy. In fact, they're trying to pass a bicycle helmet law in Austin right now, primarily because a city councilman recently got injured while riding his bike, and I think it's ridiculous. Apparently, nobody on the city council realized riding a bicycle in traffic was dangerous, before this guy got hurt. Life is full of dangers. The problem isn't a lack of laws protecting the people, it's a lack of people with realistic perceptions about the inherent dangers in life. Too many people seem to believe that because we're living in the early twenty-first century--the technology age--our lives should be free from danger. That's ridiculous. It's the same attitude that caused so many people to IMMEDIATELY look for scapegoats after 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina. "If somebody got hurt, somebody must have %&#@ed up."

At the same time, with personal responsibility comes varying views on what constitutes "responsible." One shouldn't assume that because another person holds a differing view on responsibility that that other person is trying to tell him or her what to do. If you can't tolerate views that might conflict with your own definition of "responsible," we can always just concede to let the government decide for us.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[normiss 800]

maybe you're right in that we have some differing views on the definition of "responsible". The way I see it, if my decision to be or not be responsible only affects ME, then why does anyone else care?
I am overly responsible in so many ways in life it's almost sickening...but when it comes to my personal choices and freedoms, I'm rather passionate about them and how they affect ME. In regards to motorcycling, nothing I've ever done on 2 wheels has caused someone else harm or property damage...with the exception of smoky burnouts in the bar at the dz anyway.... and burnt rubber marks in the bar ain't no big effin deal!!

[Douva 0]

Quote

In regards to motorcycling, nothing I've ever done on 2 wheels has caused someone else harm or property damage...

Well, that's more than I can say. I took out a mailbox.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.