Frap Hats More Dangerous Than Going Without A Helmet??

[kai2k1 0]

Case in Point. i think it was the 1984 olympics in which Greg Lougainis did a gainer off of what i think (i was only 12) was a 3m springboard, he cracked the board with his head. From what i remember about the medical reports the Dr. said that if he didnt have a swim cap on to absorb some of the impact he would have been dead! IMO frap hat or helmet both will offer some degree of protection against blunt force trauma. But why do i see skydivers goin up with no helmets at all??

There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan

[hookitt 1]

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But why do i see skydivers goin up with no helmets at all??

Cuz they can. It's really that simple. There are Many BASE jumpers as well that choose to flick with out any form of body armor as well.

I'm a big advocate of helmuts in skydiving and Body armor in the sports that should require it. I've been in 2 freefall collisions. In one of them I hit my head.

I'm sure it hurt much less than it would have.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[D22369 0]

why aren't leather helmets legel substitutes for helmets for motorcycles?


because the helmets from the turn of the century protected (leather) from road rash....not from blunt force trauma...... most motorcycles topped out at about 60 mph **** if you had big balls!!!!!!

now days a 600 cc sport bike can easily attain 150 mph

anything between your head and an impact point is better than nothing!!!! some things are better than others, frap hats are the worst....... IMO

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[mjosparky 4]

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Case in Point. i think it was the 1984 olympics in which Greg Lougainis did a gainer off of what i think (i was only 12) was a 3m springboard, he cracked the board with his head. From what i remember about the medical reports the Dr. said that if he didnt have a swim cap on to absorb some of the impact he would have been dead! IMO frap hat or helmet both will offer some degree of protection against blunt force trauma. But why do i see skydivers goin up with no helmets at all??

It was the one meter spring board and Lougainis never wore any kind of cap.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Tilion 0]

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anything between your head and an impact point is better than nothing!!!!

Pick a fight with someone who's carrying brass knuckles or tripping and falling into something sharp and you will change your point of view... if you still can.

Obviously I'm just hairsplitting. Since most of the times, impact will be confined to a single point or at least a very small surface, the headprotection will spread the force since it itself covers a larger surface (unlike my sarcastic examples above ). This can never be bad, there's just good and less good ways of doing so.

[betzilla 56]

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Is no helmet better then soft helmet? I can't imagine any logical explanation why this would be the case, hense my belief in it being an urban legend.

I'm with you -- it doesn't make sense to me either. Somebody probably said, "you're better off without a helmet than with frap hat,": but they likely meant, "because you won't look like such a dork."

[betzilla 56]

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Case in Point. i think it was the 1984 olympics in which Greg Lougainis did a gainer off of what i think (i was only 12) was a 3m springboard, he cracked the board with his head. From what i remember about the medical reports the Dr. said that if he didnt have a swim cap on to absorb some of the impact he would have been dead! IMO frap hat or helmet both will offer some degree of protection against blunt force trauma. But why do i see skydivers goin up with no helmets at all??

Have you ever seen that video of Greg Louganis? He wasn't wearing a swimcap.

[WayneRATS 0]

ok then so am i right in thinking that

a frap hat offers the minimum of protection and a protec or bike hat offers the maximum..

if i wanted to wear summit lighter than a bike helmet but not nothing it'd be a protec.
or something more than nothing but not to bulky it's be a frap hat.. theres no WAY that wearning nothing is better than wearing a frap hat


looks aside of course


and wtf has 45 degree angles got to do with frap hats?

keep it on subject guys

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Can You Ere Me Now?

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"a frap hat offers the minimum of protection and a protec or bike hat offers the maximum"

yeppers, try this, put on a frapp hat, go and bang your head against a wall really hard, now try the same exercise with a hard helmet, protec, bonehead, even a gath.....

People will look at you strangely, but hey, its your head.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[TXSkydancer 0]

After a really bad opening and a nasty riser slap to my left ear (with a frap hat on), I purchased an open face hard helmet. The riser slap bruised and bloodied my ear into the inner ear! If you look at tandem instructor's hard helmets that jump frequently you can see nice nicks and grooves in their helmets. Also, I have no problems conversing with the tandem student.

Blue Skies and Safe Landings!

[kallend 2,026]

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ok then so am i right in thinking that

a frap hat offers the minimum of protection and a protec or bike hat offers the maximum..

A Protec doesn't provide any protection against a blow to the lower face or jaw.

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if i wanted to wear summit lighter than a bike helmet but not nothing it'd be a protec.
or something more than nothing but not to bulky it's be a frap hat.. theres no WAY that wearning nothing is better than wearing a frap hat


looks aside of course


and wtf has 45 degree angles got to do with frap hats?

Lateral thinkers can see the connection.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,989]

>yeppers, try this, put on a frapp hat, go and bang your head against a wall really hard, . . .

Be careful with these sort of comparisons. For example - stand on grass and fall forward face first. Try it using your hands to break your fall, then try it again but this time just landing face first on the grass. See which one hurts more. One might then conclude that you should always stick out your hands to break your fall - which is exactly the wrong conclusion when it comes to landing parachutes.

We have a lot of intuitions and instincts based on being two-legged two-armed animals that spend most of our time on the ground walking at very slow speeds. They don't always apply to high speed impacts, freefall, aircraft aerodynamics or canopy flight.

[sundevil777 102]

Lousy analogy, I think.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kai2k1 0]

i couldnt remember if he did or not,(hell, i was only 12, 31 now) but there was some debate on whether they should be required for divers.

There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan

[mjosparky 4]

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i couldnt remember if he did or not,(hell, i was only 12, 31 now) but there was some debate on whether they should be required for divers.

Thats a long way from posting "the doctors said he would have died if he not been wearing a bathing cap". I you can't remember why post?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[tbrown 26]

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what if you slam your head against the side of the airplane while exiting? A frap hat I'm sure would do more good than no helmet. But I think frap hats are silly, I mean if youre going to wear a helmet wear a helmet, not a peice of leather...

There was a fatality in California back in the eighties on a night jump involving a frap hat. I'd already left the sport and moved north, but heard about this from some jumping friends. Probably Sparky knows about it.

The woman had just started wearing a frap hat and she didn't show up in the formation or at head count back on the ground. Her body was found the next morning, she'd never pulled. It was theorized she'd hit her head exiting the plane. AAD's were not in common use in those days (pre-Cypres).

Personally, I once shattered a Cooper hockey helmet off my head, landing my reserve in a flooded field. There must've been a rock under the water, I just hear a loud cracking noise and was bare headed, being dragged through the water like a water skier, towards a flooded irrigation ditch. I was able to haul in my canopy and walk away. I think if I'd been wearing a frap hat, I'd have probably fractured my skull and drowned. Found the helmet too - both halves, still held together by the chin strap. Hung it up next to the manifest window for a safety display...

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[jarrv4 0]

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This is so stupid, take all he experts you want. If i take the base of my palm and 'punch' the side of my head it fuckin hurts...if i do it with a frap on i barely feel it.

Case closed.

J.Neas

Heck yeah... Also I have seen several people (myself included) not get hurt by riser slaps thanks to a frap hat. Is a hard helmet better? YES!! But a frap hat is better than nothing.

J.

[kmcguffee 0]

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This is so stupid, take all he experts you want. If i take the base of my palm and 'punch' the side of my head it fuckin hurts...if i do it with a frap on i barely feel it.

Case closed.

Try it with a baseball bat and let us know the outcome.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

We wear frap hats for incidental contact. Contact between my tandem passenger's head and my chin on exit or landing. Contact with that same person's head and the roof of the plane as we move to the rear prior to exit. Possible sliding contact with the ground or off the side of the plane. Definitely better than nothing.

[burn 0]

My main reason for wearing a frap hat is to get some small protection without the bulk of a helmet.

[winsor 236]

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I'm pretty sure this is an urban legend circulated by those who want to justify their expensive but nice looking hard helmets.

_Am

Not at all. The ribs on a frap hat can focus an impact on one of the plates of the skull, thus increasing the likelihood and severity of a skull fracture.

The utility of a frap hat is for carrying gloves, altimeter and whatnot, as well as keeping a dirt-alert against the ear and reducing injury from sharp metal in the airplane.

For protection against impact a frap hat is junk, and may well be worse than nothing at all. I wear frap hats, and try not to hit my head.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[SkydiverRick 0]

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My main reason for wearing a frap hat is to get some small protection without the bulk of a helmet.

It's a fashion statement for me.

never pull low......unless you are

[AndyMan 7]

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Not at all. The ribs on a frap hat can focus an impact on one of the plates of the skull, thus increasing the likelihood and severity of a skull fracture.

Ok, I've heard this a few times. Why isn't this better then focusing the impact on a tiny, 25 cent piece area when you hit unprotected?

I've asked a few doctors, none of them have agreed with your theory.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billvon 2,989]

>Not at all. The ribs on a frap hat can focus an impact on one of the
> plates of the skull, thus increasing the likelihood and severity of a
> skull fracture.

While that may be true, skull fracture is not the mechanism that causes permanent brain injury and death in most head trauma; it is deceleration injury to the brain, which occurs during impacts not severe enough to fracture the skull. IOW a frap hat will provide some (minor) impact attenuation, and that may save your life. If the impact is severe enough that the extra 1/4 inch or so of compressed rib makes the difference in a skull fracture or no skull fracture, your brain won't care - it will already be shredded.

[Squeak 17]

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If that's the case, then why aren't leather helmets legel substitutes for helmets for motorcycles?

What about football(American...REAL footbal), they used to wear leather helmets, why do they wear hard-shell helmets now?
.

Because they're a bunch of gilry girly sissies Play Rugby (league or union) MANS FOOTBALL

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
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