Frap Hats More Dangerous Than Going Without A Helmet??

[mjosparky 4]

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I'm pretty sure this is an urban legend circulated by those who want to justify their expensive but nice looking hard helmets.

_Am

Not at all. The ribs on a frap hat can focus an impact on one of the plates of the skull, thus increasing the likelihood and severity of a skull fracture.

The utility of a frap hat is for carrying gloves, altimeter and whatnot, as well as keeping a dirt-alert against the ear and reducing injury from sharp metal in the airplane.

For protection against impact a frap hat is junk, and may well be worse than nothing at all. I wear frap hats, and try not to hit my head.


Blue skies,

Winsor

You can't really believe that crap. Any protection is better then none. The ribs in a frap hat are 8/9 inches long and any impact would be distribute the impact over the length of the rib. When you work cutting fire wood, do you wear gloves? That thin piece of leather gives you some protection. Come on people get serious.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slotperfect 7]

Well now . . . I didn't intend for this one to turn into a flamer!?!?!

Anyway, I appreciate all of the input. My conclusion (for myself) is that:

1) A frap hat is better than going without.
2) It provides decent "bump" protection, but not much protection in cracking my head on the aircraft on exit or on a hard object during a bad landing.
3) A hard helmet is the best all-around protection.

I did find it interesting how many folks thought frap hats make you look like a dork. I even hear it frim a tandem student or two now and then. Personally, I have always liked the look, and will continue to choose it for some skydiving purposes.

Thanks!

Arrive Safely

John

[Designer 0]

Only reason I jump a frap hat is for non-restricted vision.Have never been comfortable with any helmet restricting my limited vision(glasses under goggles).

[winsor 236]

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I'm pretty sure this is an urban legend circulated by those who want to justify their expensive but nice looking hard helmets.

_Am

Not at all. The ribs on a frap hat can focus an impact on one of the plates of the skull, thus increasing the likelihood and severity of a skull fracture.

The utility of a frap hat is for carrying gloves, altimeter and whatnot, as well as keeping a dirt-alert against the ear and reducing injury from sharp metal in the airplane.

For protection against impact a frap hat is junk, and may well be worse than nothing at all. I wear frap hats, and try not to hit my head.


Blue skies,

Winsor

You can't really believe that crap. Any protection is better then none. The ribs in a frap hat are 8/9 inches long and any impact would be distribute the impact over the length of the rib. When you work cutting fire wood, do you wear gloves? That thin piece of leather gives you some protection. Come on people get serious.

You weren't paying attention.

I wear gloves, but don't expect they'll do a whole lot of good against a chainsaw or lawnmower blade for example.

I wear a frap hat, but don't expect it to do much more than keep from minor cuts or trivial bumps in the airplane.

Even a hard helmet is no guarantee of survival from a freefall collision, not to mention an out of control landing. Necks are pretty fragile, all things being considered.

Protective equipment is a good thing, but so is a certain amount of skepticism. It's a bad plan to expect any one thing to carry the day, and the best thing any expensive headgear can do is to convince you that you don't want to lose money by having it get dinged - particularly if your head is in it at the time.

Though gear fear is a bad thing, it's a good idea to plan the jump as though your helmet won't help you and you'll be under reserve at a low altitude over the worst real estate in the vicinity.

By the time you get in the door, however, you should have planned properly so you can trust your equipment and procedures and go for it.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[mjosparky 4]

Thats using a lot of words to say the same thing. Some protection is better than none.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[kallend 2,026]

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I did find it interesting how many folks thought frap hats make you look like a dork. I even hear it frim a tandem student or two now and then. Personally, I have always liked the look, and will continue to choose it for some skydiving purposes.

Thanks!

You like to look like a dork? To each his own, I guess.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Swanee 0]

How true--2 weeks ago in the plane a tandem passenger told me my head looked like a giant penis!

[headoverheels 333]

Skydiving is not about what's safest. If it were, we wouldn't have so many landing deaths and injuries, because we wouldn't have the canopies that make them more likely, and we'd be wearing something closer in protection level to a motorcycle helmet, rather than hardhats which have less padding for a larger head than for a smaller head, making up the size difference with thinner liners. Helmets didn't go from less effective to more effective. When I started skydiving, hard helmets were required, and that meant open faced motorcycle helmets for any experienced jumper. I seem to recall that students were put out in football helmets, with no faceguards. A few years later, when the hard hats were removed from the BSR's, people moved to hockey helmets, water polo helmets, later to Protecs, then to nothing or frap hats. The modern hard hats offer better head protection than the frap hats, and offer some face protection from moderate impacts, although all I've jumped restrict my downward vision. When we Protec-wearers first saw frap hats, we surely weren't gonna wear one of those dorky things! A year later, we all had them. I've had many hits to the head from feet, aircraft doors, ground, while wearing a frap hat, and there is no doubt that it is significantly better than wearing nothing.

[betzilla 56]

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How true--2 weeks ago in the plane a tandem passenger told me my head looked like a giant penis!

She wants you.

[JeffGordon 0]

It will also cover my ears and protect them from a riser strike.

[skymick 0]

Damn you needed him to tell you that Swanny? Any of us at the DZ could of told you that!

[pds 0]

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I have read this before, but have never heard an explanation. I am very interested to hear why some people believe that wearing a frap hat is worse than going without any helmet at all?

that is just stooopid with a capital d. you might read lots of words but none of them will prove no hat is better than a frap. gearcheck headbuts, incidental doorway and fuselage contact, mild freefall impacts, rides to school on the short bus.

i admit the small amount of protection a frap gives in the case of severe cranial impact is nil, but thats not the premise being explored here.

but hey, if you wanna be a cool looking corpse instead of a dorky looking corpse i guess wearing a frap is worse than not.

namaste, motherfucker.

[glgflyer 0]

I've always worn a protec. But now that I have to wear eyeglasses under my goggles I am considering a frap hat also for that same reason, peripheral vision in freefall. Does this help that a lot?

[glgflyer 0]

I have been wearing a protec helmet all my skydiving career because the consensus is they have the most protection. However, now that I have to wear eyeglasses under my goggles I am considering getting a frap hat simply for having better peripheral vision in the air. I know it isn't as much protection but having limited vision in the air isn't very satisfying either. Does anyone who wears eyeglasses under goggles have this issue also? Would love to hear your take on this issue.

[dorbie 0]

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> Actually, what Aggie said was right on the money.

Just asked an orthopedic surgeon, and her take:

Most brain damage is caused by deceleration trauma to the brain, not crushing injury to the head. A frap hat, since it will crush, increases deceleration distance and therefore will protect your brain over a hatless impact. Your skull is so strong that deceleration injury will kill you well before your skull gets crushed in by the ribs.

This is about the only post needed in this thread. Folks really should try to understand the role of deceleration forces in head injury. Spreading the deceleration of any impact over time reduces the impact forces. This is by far the most important role for a skydiving helmet. To do a really good job of this takes a thick layer of deformable padding. But some deformable padding that spreads deceleration over time is better than none.

[peek 21]

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... I am considering getting a frap hat simply for having better peripheral vision in the air.

My peripheral vision has never been reduced with a Protec compared to a frap hat. (This might be because I have an extra large head, and the position of my eyes relative to the edges of the helmet.)

You might try some experiments. I don't think the difference in peripheral vision is going to be that much.

The designers of equipment like helmets take things like peripheral vision into account when they design them.

[riggerrob 643]

Eyeglasses already reduce your peripheral vision.
Sure you can still out the edges of your eyes, but you cannot focus out the sides, so everything is blurry out there.

Helmet designers always consider peripheral vision, so unless your helmet is a terrible fit, it will not reduce peripheral vision.

Another urban myth destroyed!

[dgw 8]

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Eyeglasses already reduce your peripheral vision.
Sure you can still out the edges of your eyes, but you cannot focus out the sides, so everything is blurry out there.

Another urban myth destroyed!

Eye glasses have (for myopia) concave lenses, which increase the apparent field of view, and goes some way to reducing losses in peripheral vision. That said, I'd rather have 20/20 vision..

[popsjumper 2]

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> Actually, what Aggie said was right on the money.

Just asked an orthopedic surgeon, and her take:

Most brain damage is caused by deceleration trauma to the brain, not crushing injury to the head. A frap hat, since it will crush, increases deceleration distance and therefore will protect your brain over a hatless impact. Your skull is so strong that deceleration injury will kill you well before your skull gets crushed in by the ribs.

This is about the only post needed in this thread

Indeed it is, but!.....Awww, let 'em ride. I'm getting a kick out of all the fluff and utter BS being posted about frap vs no hat which is what the OP asked.

How did it come to be called "frap" hat?
Anybody?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[crustySCSA69 0]

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........
How did it come to be called "frap" hat?
Anybody?

it's not actually 'frap' hat... it's 'frappe' hat
it came from the French, who used 'frappe' the way we used 'bounce' (and a much better term, i always thought, since it got the whole audio thing going for it)

[popsjumper 2]

so you're saying, in American English, frap equates to bounce?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[JohnRich 4]

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so you're saying, in American English, frap equates to bounce?

An internet language translator says that the French "frappe" means "strike" in English.

[Floflo 0]

[An internet language translator says that the French "frappe" means "strike" in English. ]

As well, but in this case it actually means "hit".

[JohnRich 4]

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[An internet language translator says that the French "frappe" means "strike" in English. ]

As well, but in this case it actually means "hit".

Yes, but I don't take this to show that "frap" means "to hit the ground in freefall", other than in informal skydiving lingo. I don't think I've heard the word used in that way in a great many years. The literal interpretation seems to be that it's simply a hat to protect your head from strikes/hits.

[Floflo 0]

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The literal interpretation seems to be that it's simply a hat to protect your head from strikes/hits.

Exactly, I don't know where it first appeared or if it was originally designed for that purpose, but it was first used in France by the military instructors (who didn't jump out of the plane) and were hit by the hard helmets and rifles of the soldiers as they jumped out.