havensiangst 0 #1 April 8, 2007 I jump a Sabre2-135(loaded1.4)..and i`m quit pleasant with these chute..but i dont like the openings...it`s so freaking slow. I don`t rolling the nose or anything..i drop 800-900feet everytime after i pitch the pilot.. i have thinking about asking my rigger to build me a finemesh colapsable slider so it will open little bit faster, maybe a bigger pilot aswell..using a large mesh maybe is too much..... I`m used to jump with large mesh for terminaljump in BASE... Have somebody done these thing with they`re Sabre`s with great success... "Yes i know some probably will say..BUY A Sabre1..i jump that before and i really like those chutes, but the second edition flies much better.." One more thing...lots of people told me that to low wingload cause closed endingcells...what wingload do i need get rid of that problem??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #2 April 8, 2007 Talk to a packer, or a rigger first. You might get some good tips on speeding up your opening. For starters, most people think that pushing your quartered slider back from the nose will help pick up the pace a bit. Historically, the big problem has been getting Sabre openings to slow down and not go the other way. Also, your perspective as a BASE jumper may have given you a different set of expectations, since you guys pull lower and want/need faster openings than the average skydiver. Slower openings and higher pull altitudes have been the sport's answer to the brutal openings of the early model ZP canopies. A lot of people nowadays are dumping between 3000 and 3500 ft, if that puts you in the saddle in the low to mid 2 grand zone, enjoy the ride. Personally I love the bedroom soft openings and don't think I'd enjoy a mesh slider at all. As for closed end cells and wingloading, BASE jumpers generally use bigger boxier canopies and even some extra vents to equalize and speed up inflation, boxy so you can sink into tight landing zones. With a skydiving ZP canopy, you can go smaller, anything over a 1.0 WL should have no serious problems. I get occasional cell closures on a Pilot I load at 1.2, but a tug on the brakes opens them right up. Just ask around about your openings though, no need to go break yourself in half over it. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #3 April 8, 2007 Yeah, you definitely DO NOT want to roll the nose on a Sabre-2. Openings of 800-900ft sounds about right to maybe a bit long for a Sabre-2. I know what you mean about the Sabre-2. I've got a ton of jumps on mine and even more on original Sabres before that. While I think the "rep" that the original Sabre carries for hard openings is somewhat over-hyped, at the same time, when it bites, and it will, it bites hard! So, while I think an original Sabre is still a perfectly fine canopy to jump if you've already got one that's in good shape (my backup rig has one in it), I don't think there's much reason to go looking for one now. Anyway, I jump a Sabre-2 170, and load it at about 1.2:1 and collapsed end cells on opening are fairly common for me... pitch, eyes on the horizon, be level, arch, wait for it to sit me up, spread the risers to keep it on heading, when its mostly open, haul down on the rear risers to get the end cells open and slider the rest of the way down, collapse the slider, and unstow the brakes... is pretty much my routine with a Sabre-2. I like my Sabre-2. I like the way it flies & lands better then the original Sabre. I like that every once in awhile it doesn't open like you just hit the ground, but I wish it didn't have the tendency to "hunt" on opening and the collapsed end cell thing. Seems PD fixed the "slammer" problem of the original Sabre with the Sabre-2, but highlighted a couple of other problems, oh well, nothings for free. I haven't made up my mind yet, but the next new main I'd buy???... I'm leaning towards a Stiletto or Katana. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,049 #4 April 9, 2007 >i have thinking about asking my rigger to build me a finemesh >colapsable slider so it will open little bit faster . . Well: a) Switching from a sail slider to a mesh slider does not cause canopies to open "just a bit faster." There's a real possibility your canopy would not survive the opening with a mesh slider. Switching from a sail slider to a mesh slider on my Mojo sped up the openings rather dramatically - and that's a canopy that's designed for a mesh slider. b) Mesh sliders are quite permeable to air, which is why they are used for faster openings in BASE and CRW. Why you would you have to collapse a permeable slider? If you really want to speed up your openings, start with packing tricks (like not quartering, exposing the nose outside the roll etc.) If those don't get the results you like, perhaps a ported slider or slightly smaller slider might work. Adjusting your upper brakeline length may also help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #5 April 9, 2007 I'd definitely like my Sabre 2 to open a little faster. I don't want to try to not quarter the slider, I think that would give an asymetric, off-heading opening (?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #6 April 9, 2007 Quote>i have thinking about asking my rigger to build me a finemesh >colapsable slider so it will open little bit faster . . Well: a) Switching from a sail slider to a mesh slider does not cause canopies to open "just a bit faster." There's a real possibility your canopy would not survive the opening with a mesh slider. Switching from a sail slider to a mesh slider on my Mojo sped up the openings rather dramatically - and that's a canopy that's designed for a mesh slider. b) Mesh sliders are quite permeable to air, which is why they are used for faster openings in BASE and CRW. Why you would you have to collapse a permeable slider? If you really want to speed up your openings, start with packing tricks (like not quartering, exposing the nose outside the roll etc.) If those don't get the results you like, perhaps a ported slider or slightly smaller slider might work. Adjusting your upper brakeline length may also help. yea... collapse a permeable slider sound silly..but are you serious about mounting a fine mesh slider will ripped my chute?? you can buy Black Jack and Flik`s with 0-P top skin as an option..and their jumping these chutes with fine and large mesh sliders... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #7 April 9, 2007 Yes, but BASE canopies are designed for slider-down or mesh slider openings. A Sabre 2 just isn't. I wonder how a small hole [or a small bit of mesh] in the middle of the sail slider might help. It's a little more subtle at least... Packing techniques seem to make the most sense.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #8 April 9, 2007 That tri I just picked up a few weeks ago came with two sets of links on the rears. What effect was the previous owner trying to get with this set up? Anything related to openings or just trimming it for steeper hands off flight? It opens softly and it is not the version 4 mod line set. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #9 April 10, 2007 Just an idea: ask your rigger to make a new slider (same size as the original), it shouldn’t cost that much. Start cutting a small hole in the center and adjust the diameter until you get the opening you want. In the future, if you decide to sell the canopy just put the original slider back so it does not lose resale value. Safe skies!Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #10 April 10, 2007 Having seen a Sabre2 opening that involved an uncolapsed sail slider and the resulting ambulance ride, I wouldn't recommend jumping one wtih a mesh slider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #11 April 10, 2007 Ok..i realized that the hole idea with fine mesh slider is a mess, i talk to my rigger about it and he told me basically the same as you guys..so i live with my "slow" opening...but thanks for the replies.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #12 April 10, 2007 That's a crw mod, for steeper flight. I used extra links to save a few ounds of lead myself. Less flare though, so wouldn't jump it like that for freefall jumps. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #13 April 10, 2007 QuoteHaving seen a Sabre2 opening that involved an uncolapsed sail slider and the resulting ambulance ride, I wouldn't recommend jumping one wtih a mesh slider. A collapsed slider and a small hole mesh slider will produce very different amounts of drag.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #14 April 10, 2007 QuoteQuote>i have thinking about asking my rigger to build me a finemesh >colapsable slider so it will open little bit faster . . yea... collapse a permeable slider sound silly..but are you serious about mounting a fine mesh slider will ripped my chute?? you can buy Black Jack and Flik`s with 0-P top skin as an option..and their jumping these chutes with fine and large mesh sliders... BASE canopies have span-wise reinforcing tapes across the line attachments. I haven't seen a skydiving main not made by Big Air Sportz (Brian says they make for a more rigid wing) which has the tapes. BASE canopies have dacron lines which stretch and reduce peak opening forces. Almost everyone puts Spectra, Vectran, or HMA on their skydiving canopies which doesn't stretch as much, This disregards differences in slider dimensions, nose configuration, and brake settings which all influence how fast the opening will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #15 April 11, 2007 That makes sense since it isn't the hybrid but the owner replaced the center A lines with dacron. Thanks Saskia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites longtall 0 #16 April 11, 2007 Say; Could you explain/illistrate that mod?.........J...." 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #17 April 11, 2007 If you want to fly flatter or steeper for a crw jump, because of your wingload/linetrim/etc, you can add an extra set of french links to either the front or the back links, thereby changing the trim of the canopy a bit. It's not as good as changing the trim of a lightning from sequential to rotation and vv, because you warp the canopy a bit this way (you're changing HALF the trim not the whole canopy), but it works. I could do with a few less kilos of lead which was worth it for me! It's a quick-fix temporary mod, very useful when jumping slightly unmatched canopies. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites longtall 0 #18 April 11, 2007 I understand thanks. By the way hows a saber 2 for crw ?..................................j........................." 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites havensiangst 0 #19 April 11, 2007 QuoteIf you want to fly flatter or steeper for a crw jump, because of your wingload/linetrim/etc, you can add an extra set of french links to either the front or the back links, thereby changing the trim of the canopy a bit. It's not as good as changing the trim of a lightning from sequential to rotation and vv, because you warp the canopy a bit this way (you're changing HALF the trim not the whole canopy), but it works. I could do with a few less kilos of lead which was worth it for me! It's a quick-fix temporary mod, very useful when jumping slightly unmatched canopies. would this "modification" increasing the possibility of tensionknot?? i mean by changing the glideratio in that way you will get some loose lines...just a thought... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #20 April 11, 2007 You don't get loose lines, you get a slight fold in the canopy. Of course you still load all your lines. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites havensiangst 0 #21 April 11, 2007 ahhh....got it!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #22 April 11, 2007 QuoteI understand thanks. By the way hows a saber 2 for crw ?..................................j......................... A saber2 would be great for CRW with some minor mods. First you should reline the canopy with full dacron, then recanopy the lines with a 7 cell. "I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #23 April 11, 2007 QuoteJust an idea: ask your rigger to make a new slider (same size as the original), it shouldn’t cost that much. Start cutting a small hole in the center and adjust the diameter until you get the opening you want. In the future, if you decide to sell the canopy just put the original slider back so it does not lose resale value. Safe skies! This sounds interesting, try running tis past your rigger. PD reserves have a hole in their sliders and are said to give a "brisk, but comfortable" opening at terminal, though I haven't had the pleasure as yet. Might a slider for a similar size PD reserve be suitable ? Aside from the 7 cell/9 cell difference in canopies, it would at least be worth investigating. The idea of keeping the original slider for resale of the canopy is so obvious it's brilliant. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites monkycndo 0 #24 April 11, 2007 I demo'd a PD reserve and due to boogie restrictions about max opening height/no HnPs, had to take it terminal. The only difference from a true reserve deployment was that the canopy had coated lines and was pro packed. Even with the mesh slider, it was a brisk, but not painful opening. Nice to know sort of what to expect if/when the need arises.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ronaldo 0 #25 April 11, 2007 I wouldn't use a reserve slider due to the low porosity fabric (instead of ZP). It may work but I really don't know. I think that making a new slider with ZP material would be better. I can get it done here in Brazil pretty fast and cheap but I don't know how much it would cost in US.Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
VectorBoy 0 #15 April 11, 2007 That makes sense since it isn't the hybrid but the owner replaced the center A lines with dacron. Thanks Saskia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longtall 0 #16 April 11, 2007 Say; Could you explain/illistrate that mod?.........J...." 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #17 April 11, 2007 If you want to fly flatter or steeper for a crw jump, because of your wingload/linetrim/etc, you can add an extra set of french links to either the front or the back links, thereby changing the trim of the canopy a bit. It's not as good as changing the trim of a lightning from sequential to rotation and vv, because you warp the canopy a bit this way (you're changing HALF the trim not the whole canopy), but it works. I could do with a few less kilos of lead which was worth it for me! It's a quick-fix temporary mod, very useful when jumping slightly unmatched canopies. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longtall 0 #18 April 11, 2007 I understand thanks. By the way hows a saber 2 for crw ?..................................j........................." 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #19 April 11, 2007 QuoteIf you want to fly flatter or steeper for a crw jump, because of your wingload/linetrim/etc, you can add an extra set of french links to either the front or the back links, thereby changing the trim of the canopy a bit. It's not as good as changing the trim of a lightning from sequential to rotation and vv, because you warp the canopy a bit this way (you're changing HALF the trim not the whole canopy), but it works. I could do with a few less kilos of lead which was worth it for me! It's a quick-fix temporary mod, very useful when jumping slightly unmatched canopies. would this "modification" increasing the possibility of tensionknot?? i mean by changing the glideratio in that way you will get some loose lines...just a thought... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #20 April 11, 2007 You don't get loose lines, you get a slight fold in the canopy. Of course you still load all your lines. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #21 April 11, 2007 ahhh....got it!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #22 April 11, 2007 QuoteI understand thanks. By the way hows a saber 2 for crw ?..................................j......................... A saber2 would be great for CRW with some minor mods. First you should reline the canopy with full dacron, then recanopy the lines with a 7 cell. "I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #23 April 11, 2007 QuoteJust an idea: ask your rigger to make a new slider (same size as the original), it shouldn’t cost that much. Start cutting a small hole in the center and adjust the diameter until you get the opening you want. In the future, if you decide to sell the canopy just put the original slider back so it does not lose resale value. Safe skies! This sounds interesting, try running tis past your rigger. PD reserves have a hole in their sliders and are said to give a "brisk, but comfortable" opening at terminal, though I haven't had the pleasure as yet. Might a slider for a similar size PD reserve be suitable ? Aside from the 7 cell/9 cell difference in canopies, it would at least be worth investigating. The idea of keeping the original slider for resale of the canopy is so obvious it's brilliant. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #24 April 11, 2007 I demo'd a PD reserve and due to boogie restrictions about max opening height/no HnPs, had to take it terminal. The only difference from a true reserve deployment was that the canopy had coated lines and was pro packed. Even with the mesh slider, it was a brisk, but not painful opening. Nice to know sort of what to expect if/when the need arises.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #25 April 11, 2007 I wouldn't use a reserve slider due to the low porosity fabric (instead of ZP). It may work but I really don't know. I think that making a new slider with ZP material would be better. I can get it done here in Brazil pretty fast and cheap but I don't know how much it would cost in US.Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
