Packer quality control?

[councilman24 37]

Not me.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Not me.

Ah, one of the smart ones. What are you still doing in this sport, didn't you get the memo?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[councilman24 37]

No but I got the metal.

Packers didn't exist for the first 15 years or more of my career. Still don't at my local DZ's. Also growing up in the time of round reserves, no aad's (aod's then), the only audible was the para-alert (still have one), and my first two rigs had capewell style releases, skydiving seemed dangerous enough without worrying about someone else packing the main. In fact I became a rigger after I came to not trust the local riggers anymore.

I used to be one of the 2 hour packers. Throw it down, tell lies about the jump, go to the john, get a drink. Straighten it out and take another break. Cocoon it and maybe put it in the bag and go watch some landings, stow the lines and then get something to eat. Finally close the rig and start looking of a load.

Now, I stow the brakes before I take the rig off. (They're right in front of you!) Uncollapse the slider, lay the canopy down, back away and put it down on my drag mat. The hanger had carpet to pack on. So I put 6 inches of 2" velcro hook with a pile cover on the back bottom of my drap mat. Uncover the hook and step on it and it was anchored to the carpet without a weight. Walk up with the slider and then finish the pack. I'm not the fastest but I'm close.

Last time I was at WFFC was at the last Quincy but I was there for several years in a row. I'd go with others and be camping. Two of the guys said they were on vacation and used the packers. But I could land by the camper, pack on my mat, and be ready to go while they dropped there rig off at the packing tent and walked back to the camp. They sat around and waited for their rigs to be ready. Maybe not relevent to full time DZ's.

I understand using packers when you have other commitments between jumps like records or competion training. But otherwise I just want to be in control of my own gear and I don't do this stuff anyway.

PLUS I'M CHEAP!!!!!

The example I talked about in the original post and the discussion here re-inforces my not wanting to use packers. These kinds of short cuts are not acceptable to me.

I don't care if someone uses packers, as long as they know HOW to pack. But what really drove me crazy was one woman with 300 jumps who posted on here a couple of years ago that she didn't pack because it hurt her fingers and she thought that maybe she packed once when she a student. Maybe I shouldn't care but I don't think someone can take appropriate care of their gear and inspect it properly if they don't know how to make it work!

Yes I'm a dinosaur ..... well maybe an early mammal.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JackR 0]

Yes, I think these are issues that should be addressed. I agree that they aren't wrong, but shouldn't be used.

As for QC, I think the update to Part 105 helps out. I know there was some consternation about that, but the responsibility for the pack job is on the supervising riggers.

If you didn't know before, this thread has definitely pointed out that not all riggers are made the same.

I used to supervise the packing at a DZ. I would either train or evaluate all new packers on the team. I was a packer with them so was able to be there to supervise as well as monitor the condition of the gear with them. From time to time I would re-evaluate their packing. It wasn't like a formal test, but I would sit back and watch their pack job. We would talk afterwards about different options. I also made sure that if I was concerned about the equipment or grounded equipment, that I showed them why I was concerned.

I think the bottom line is responsibility. The supervising rigger has that responsibility. I also think that part of having a ticket is being a professional on the DZ and helping individual skydivers who are packing for themselves. If I see someone doing something questionable with their own equipment, I ask the question. They made understand the risks they are taking, but they may not as well.

Packin' Jack
42nd Lost Prairie: The Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Skydiving
25 Jul - 3 Aug 2009
2007 photos: http://www.skydive.com/prairie/pages/prairie.htm

[klingeme 1]

My reasons for learning to pack were simply economics. I learned a about 30 jumps because I did som equick math in my head. it went something like this.

I plan on doing at least 1000 jumps, and packjobs are $5 each. That is $5,000. My first rig cost me $4,500.

I now have 1,200-1,300 jumps. That is a savings of $6,000-$6,500. Call me cheap, I call it smart.

Mark Klingelhoefer

[2shay 0]

I totally agree. Given some people who do work jumps cannot avoid this though.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[jheadley 0]

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That was my point. It's silly to say people think it's cool. That's internet speak.

There is one DZ I know of where all the cool kids deliberately keep their excess line unstowed. So it's definitely real (although very stupid).

[riggerrob 643]

There is one DZ I know of where all the cool kids deliberately keep their excess line unstowed. So it's definitely real (although very stupid).

[riggerrob 643]

40" of unstowed line between the bag and the links. Many recommend 18 to 24".

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Free-stowing fell out of fashion circa 1980.
Just ask mjosparky.

[hookitt 1]

Deliberately? Why though... to be cool? I doubt it. I simply quit doing it years ago. I see many people do it for no reason at all other than they were not taught to. I teach stowing them.

The excess brake line on my canopy is very short. It doesn't pose a snag hazzard and for the life of me can't see how it would cause a premature brake release as Chuck mentioned.

The hazzard would be putting an appendage through the excess line then clearing the brakes and I'm not likely to do that. Yeah .. anything can happen but it's still not likely.

That said, as promised, I stowed the excess this weekend. I figured out a reasonable method and used it. While I don't feel it made any difference whatsoever in preventing a premature brake release, it proves to be a good example to others. On that note alone, I'll continue to stow it.

Like I mentioned, the amount of excess line on my canopy is rather short. The sketchy ones I paid attention to this weekend were much much longer.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[tetra316 0]

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40" of unstowed line between the bag and the links. Many recommend 18 to 24".

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Free-stowing fell out of fashion circa 1980.
Just ask mjosparky.

I thought it was back in vogue with the free stow bags on the ultra high performance canopies...?

[mark 107]

"Free-stowing" means coiling the lines in the pack tray (except for one or two locking stows). The lines in a "free stow bag" are stowed in a pocket on the bag, the way they are on a reserve.

Either way makes nice openings most of the time.

"Free-stowing" is sport death, though, as it's an invitation for the lines to half-hitch around a side-flap stiffener. We found that out in the early 80's.

There needs to be enough unstowed line so the risers are unrestricted (don't catch on the reserve container) when the bag lifts off, but the sooner the lines are away from flailing limbs and flapping flaps, the better.

Mark

[tetra316 0]

So theoretically you could attach a small pocket on your dbag and stow the lines in there vs the pack tray. But then there'd be no reason not to be a lazy packer

[hookitt 1]

No theory at all. There are many bags out there with pouches sewn into them. mjosparky posted these pictures in a thread about tube stoes.

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3

That is just one design. There are similar bags in use on a daily basis.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[tetra316 0]

What's the advantage of this? Or is it just another option?

[peek 21]

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Gary, I cannot envision a place where people actually think it's cool to leave that shit flapping. Chuck

Well, maybe I should be putting it another way- Because I suggest to them that it would be best to stow the excess, and I'm "not cool", then not stowing it makes it "cool".

[peek 21]

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Chuck: Gary, I cannot envision a place where people actually think it's cool to leave that shit flapping.

Hookit: That was my point. It's silly to say people think it's cool.

I see jheadley posted after us, stating that he has seen this too. But my reply to Chuck might be the best explanation.

I wasn't trying to be a wise guy at you. Perhaps that was a bit of sarcasm directed to those people I see doing this.

I find it difficult to believe some of the things people do or not do to be "cool", but I see it.

[riggerrob 643]

A line stow pocket means fewer rubber bands to replace.
Mind you, when is the last time you saw a skydiver replace Velcro ... on time?

[stratostar 5]

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when is the last time you saw a skydiver replace Velcro ... on time?

Never ! (unless said jumpers is also a rigger)

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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A line stow pocket means fewer rubber bands to replace.
Mind you, when is the last time you saw a skydiver replace Velcro ... on time?

I have had my rigger replace my riser cover velcro on time for the last thousand jumps or so.

[hookitt 1]

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A line stow pocket means fewer rubber bands to replace.
Mind you, when is the last time you saw a skydiver replace Velcro ... on time?

Another design has no velcro or any other fastener to close part of the pouch, The first one I saw was being used by Steve Curtis. With the main in the bag, the pouch is tight. The lines pay out quite nicely.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[peek 21]

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Velcro is evil to hma, vetran and spectra... period. If your design is a good one, then share it so all the lazy people in the world might stop being lazy ... or cool... whatever.

Done.

http://www.pcprg.com
Go to the Skydiver Area at
http://www.pcprg.com/skydive.htm
Stowing excess steering line using Velcro without damaging the line
http://www.pcprg.com/slstow.htm

[hookitt 1]

Thanks for posting that Gary. I like it. It is a very good, simple design.

Have you thought of extending the hook portion a little to create a flap? If you wanted, it can even be folded back a little so it's even easier to keep the hook away fronm the line.

Here is a rough drawing.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[peek 21]

Quote

Have you thought of extending the hook portion a little to create a flap? If you wanted, it can even be folded back a little so it's even easier to keep the hook away from the line. Here is a rough drawing.

Yes! Very nice. Now if we can just get the riser manufacturers to do this.

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

Hi hookit,

Not to take anything away from your idea (which is a good one BTW; now we're getting somewhere on this) but one also could sew the hook somewhat like that but stay short of the outer edge about 1/4". This would accomplish the same thing and keep the bulk down.

Just a thought,

Jerry