Cypres vs. Vigil vs. Argus

[mamajumps 0]

Obviously the Cypres has been around the longest, and is in most people's opinions the top of the crop, but I would like to do a feature by feature comparison on which to buy. Any help anyone here can provide is awesome! Thanks!

[phoenixlpr 0]

You vs. moderators? This has been around countless times. Seach....

[mamajumps 0]

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You vs. moderators? This has been around countless times. Seach....

I'm not that dumb, but thanks.... I tried searching couldnt find anything that really had the answers I was looking for...

[droquette 0]

an AAD is supposed to be like a sure thing in an emergency. I almost bought a vigil but bought Cypress2 and am happy with my decision. Cypress has the most saves that I know of and a track record for this type of device is the decision maker for me.

The newer ones ie. Vigil and Argus have already had one or multiple recalls.... Do you want something like that in your rig as your last alternative to saving your life... when you go splat somebody will just say.. oh.. you didnt get the last service bulletin for you xyz AAD...

Or just save the AAD cash for more jumps....

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[popsjumper 2]

Skydiving magazine, September 2005, page 12.

It's the latest I found so far. The article, beginning on page 1, is informative.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[gjhdiver 0]

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Obviously the Cypres has been around the longest, and is in most people's opinions the top of the crop, but I would like to do a feature by feature comparison on which to buy. Any help anyone here can provide is awesome! Thanks!

You'll get a lot of answers to this really, so it makes sense to look at the websites of the comapnies involved. I personally use the Argus. I find it has the best construction and easiest ongoing user maintainance. Others don't like the idea of anything but a Cypres because they have been around the longest. However, speaking as someone who had a misfire on one, I can affirm that they are not foolproof.

You can read about the Argus at http://www.argus-aad.com

Remember though, that everyone likes you to jump what they jump. It's important that you jump what you feel comfortable with, even if that means separating yourself from the herd.

[chutingstar 1]

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Skydiving magazine, September 2005, page 12.

It's the latest I found so far. The article, beginning on page 1, is informative.

I recently wrote an article on the subject due to many recent questions at the loft on the differences. It's on the most recent Rigger Rant & Rave. It's a mix of fact/opinion...for whatever it's worth, this is the link:
http://www.chutingstar.com/rantandrave.html.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[hoyt 0]

I know that you didn't need your AAD when you cut away in Dublin, Ga but did you ever find your parachute?
I have a Vigil in both of my rigs but I will buy Cypres 2 from now on. I don't like having to keep watch to see if my AAD has been recalled this week or that there has been another problem that has developed lately. I sure hope that I never have to test mine to see if it works or not.

Every day is a great day, some are just a little better.

[kelpdiver 2]

The Skydiving magazine article is probably the best launching point. Then the threads here - lots of heat, but all the info as well.

For the same money, I'd take the Cypres2. Established, solid, and doesn't have any battery maintenence. The Argus sells the user replaceable batteries as a feature, but I think it's a negative. I don't see any value in Vigil's multi modes or data logging either. Your views may differ.

If you're interested in the newer brands but not confident in them yet, getting an 8 or 10 year old Cypres1 gets you in the sky cheap and lets you see how things pan out. (and see if Vigil finds they need to specify a service interval)

[skydiverton2 0]

Ask all manufacturers a couple of technical questions. 1 will give you a technical answer the other 2 the political correct marketing answer

Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habid.
.
.
Also in case you jump a sport rig!!!

[JerryBaumchen 1,357]

Hi mama,

While it is not very popular, you might also look at the ASTRA by FXC (it never seems to be mentioned when any discussion of AADs is taking place). An ASTRA just saved one of this country's most experienced jumpers.

Jerry

[mamajumps 0]

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Hi mama,

While it is not very popular, you might also look at the ASTRA by FXC (it never seems to be mentioned when any discussion of AADs is taking place). An ASTRA just saved one of this country's most experienced jumpers.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I have jumped with an Astra before, was comfy with using it, my only issue is that it doesnt have a self turn off feature. I am the single most forgetful person in the whole world when it comes to little things like remembering to turn it off after every jump.... other than that I like the product. Just the cost in batteries from me being forgetful would break the bank.

[377 22]

I just had my old Cypres 1 expire and went through all the available choices before settling on buying a Cypres 2. I am an electrical engineer and know that with mission critical systems you want proven hardware and proven software, not the latest product necessarily. Airtec has more experience in sport AADs than their competitors do. They test, analyse and update all the time. They are not a complacent company. They have made some mistakes (like mis-estimating how fast some highly loaded canopies can descend in the hands of radical flyers) but they generally have it all figured out. No AAD is perfect, but in my opinion Cypres 2 is the best choice right now.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[gjhdiver 0]

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They have made some mistakes (like mis-estimating how fast some highly loaded canopies can descend in the hands of radical flyers) but they generally have it all figured out.

Pity Adrian had to die for their little "mis-etimating". It was nice of him to help Airtec "figure it out".

If you don't actually know what compenents go into an AAD, where they are sourced from, and what tolerances and testing they and the software have been designed and tested to, it doesn't matter what qualifications you have, you're no more qualified than the anyone else to judge the product. You just take it on faith. As I've said before, my Cypres misfired and they couldn't tell me why. Others have been very happy with the product. I personally wasn't happy with their answers to me. It was clear that they had no idea of why mine failed, and I got it back with a request to send to back if it happened again. Not much of a confidence builder in the unit I'd say. Now I realise that most people haven't had that experience, but most people don't expect to have a no-pull either. My point is that the Cypres is just as prone to failiure as any other unit.

I did my research into the sourcing compaines for the parts that go into the AAD that I now jump, and spoke at length personally to the designer of the unit that I now use.

[tbrown 26]

Or just save the AAD cash for more jumps....

AADs aren't cheap and neither is the expense and hassle of sending them in for maintenance every few years. But I've already known two people who were saved by them because they were injured too badly to pull anything and a third person who admits he lost track of his altitude. They'd all be dead without their AADs. I think that fact alone makes them worth their price, but droquette, if you really think your life's not worth $1200 or whatever, then I'm not going to argue the point.

I got a nice original Cypres with my second hand rig and it still has six years to go on it, so I see no need to change. I know it works because it fired once for the previous owner. I also know you can fool an AAD into not firing if you cutaway below a grand from a low speed malfunction. And sometimes things just break down no matter what you do. But for now I'm comfy with my Cypres. I would like to see Vigil and Argus get past their problems, because I think the competition will benefit us all. But for now, I'm sold on Airtec and either one of their Cypres models.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[stevebabin 0]

What were the details of your misfire, and what did Airtech tell you?

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[377 22]

No disrespect meant regarding Adrian's Adrian's death. He was killed by his AAD plain and simple. I know that it was advertised as safe for swoops prior to him proving with his tragic accident just how wrong Airtec was in their estimates.

I actually have talked with Airtec engineers for several hours about components (especially capacitors which change with age) and failure modes. I used to work in the implantable heart defibrillator business and we shared stories about how despite best intentions and rigorous testing, unexpected and unforeseeable failures can and do occur. My take is that Airtec is VERY conscientious and not complacent. For example, they were at WFFC strapping data recorders on volunteers (including me) for high speed C 130 exits to look at transient pressure spikes coming out of their aneroid sensor when a jumper tumbles and gets hit by a strong propblast and wake turbulence. I just think they have more experience than the other mfrs of sport AADs.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[docjohn 0]

When my Cypress expired recently, I bought a new Vigil. Mainly because I felt like I was throwing away a perfectly good AAD and Vigil doesn't have that service life.

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[gjhdiver 0]

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What were the details of your misfire, and what did Airtech tell you?

I've posted this before, but basically I had my unit fire as I was walking to the plane. The plane was not running, and no-one was transmitting. There were no other planes on the ramp at the time. The unit had the RF shield installed and had just come back from it's four year service. I sent the unit back, and Airtech's response was basically, "screwed if we know why it did it, here's a new cutter. let us know if it does it again". As I said before, not much of a confidence builder in the unit.

[gjhdiver 0]

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For example, they were at WFFC strapping data recorders on volunteers (including me) for high speed C 130 exits to look at transient pressure spikes coming out of their aneroid sensor when a jumper tumbles and gets hit by a strong propblast and wake turbulence. I just think they have more experience than the other mfrs of sport AADs.

The designer of Argus has so far designed three sport AADs. There's also been a lot of testing of that unit in the same way. We had them in pouches on the 400 way in Thailand to collect exactly the sort of data that you were referring to fromt hr C-130s. I'm not saying that the Cypres II is worse or better than the Argus, just that I like the construction of the Argus better, and the philosphy of being able to service it locally at the drop zone, and use easily obtainable lithium batteries for $6-10. There's one thing to be said for being the most established company, and another for being the newest that has been able to learn from the testing and experiences of the older companies. If we were just concerned with who had been the around the longest, we'd all be jumping FXCs.

[377 22]

I have to say that I am disturbed by this event and even more by Airtec's response. I would have expected them to give you a new unit and retire yours to a lab for extensive testing. You are now the lab, and that ain't right. With no nearby radio transmissions (and I assume no nearby lightning strikes if you were boarding to jump) and an RF shield in place I am baffled as to what caused your Cypres fire. If I were the mfr and I were baffled I sure wouldn't send the unit back to the user with no changes and a shrug of my shoulders. I experienced several Sentinel 2000 AAD firings upon landing back in the old days. The mfr was baffled too, but finally made a mod (an RC time delay) to cure the problem. I was coming down so hard in my tired 3d hand surplus C 9 canopy that the rate switch would bounce and fire from the G forces when I hit.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[dragon2 2]

Airtec has had more cases like that. How about this: one of our very experienced camera jumpers ends up with a 2 out on a demo jump. Camera shows his alti with a high-enough pull altitude. Jumper receives a letter from Airtec saying they examined the unit, he screwed up and pulled too low, "operator error". Get this, the unit was never sent to Airtec it was still in his rig

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[377 22]

My confidence in Aitrec is shaken by these reports. Since a malfunctioning AAD can kill not only the user but others as well I am astounded that they let these rogue units remain in use.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[billvon 2,990]

>There's one thing to be said for being the most established company,
>and another for being the newest that has been able to learn from the
>testing and experiences of the older companies.

To be fair, the Cypres II is a new product as well, one that was able to draw on the company's experience with their previous model.

[gjhdiver 0]

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My confidence in Aitrec is shaken by these reports. Since a malfunctioning AAD can kill not only the user but others as well I am astounded that they let these rogue units remain in use.

Mine was too, which is why I use the Argus now. I like that I could sit down with the owner and talk about the design and attempts to model as many unusual occurences as possible. Time will tell once there are enough units out there if they got it right. I believe Argus is at 500 + units int he field and climibing.

As for Airtec's response in leaving the misfiring units in the field or returning them. I suspect (and this is only my opinion) that they found the units to be no different from any other and whatever caused mine and others to misfire was just as likely to happen on any of the units at the time.