Orlando 0 #1 September 3, 2006 So like many other stories, this starts with bad weather and a bunch or skydivers looking for something to do. The boogie organizer announces that the skyvan will do high-speed passes. The pilot announces he’s trying to reach 6,000 feet but they only reach 2000. So the groups start to leave the plane and as we watch from the ground, we see main canopies opening. Off course, because everyone is so low, the next thing that happens is that AAD start to fire. First 2, the 2 more and the 1 last one. So, some people chop their main, one had an entanglement with the main and one rode a downplane all the way to the ground. So at the end, we had 5 AAD fires and 2 injured skydivers. So the moral of the story is: just say no to low altitude, high-speed skyvan loads with ADD equipped rigs! What do you think?Saludos, Orlando Hispa #48 || www.amador.org || Xtreme Divers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt1215 0 #2 September 3, 2006 QuoteWhat do you think? That when the plane only goes to 2k, ppl should be smart enough to either kill their Cypres or ride the plane down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #3 September 3, 2006 QuoteSo the groups start to leave the plane Groups? Huh. Every hop & pop I've ever done was a solo. QuoteSo the moral of the story is: just say no to low altitude, high-speed skyvan loads with ADD equipped rigs! What the hell is it about the combination of boredom and peer pressure that affects decision-making so? Hope the injured heal well."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #4 September 3, 2006 And I bet someone will either blame the pilot or the DZO.When I did my hop and pops from 1600 ft I took full responsibility for my actions. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #5 September 3, 2006 QuoteAnd I bet someone will either blame the pilot or the DZO.When I did my hop and pops from 1600 ft I took full responsibility for my actions. . Read the incident reports, looks like pilot is already getting a shaft.. people need to take credit for what they choose to do, good or bad! But today it seems to be always some else's fault. Couch freaks home of the 24 free beer truck and sometimes poor decisions! Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #6 September 3, 2006 QuoteSo the moral of the story is: just say no to low altitude, high-speed skyvan loads with ADD equipped rigs! What do you think? The moral of the story is: look out the fucking door before you exit. This was not caused by a high speed skyvan, the pilot, the DZO, an ADD or any other bull shit. It was caused by skydivers not taking responsibility for their own actions. Dumb, dumb, dumb.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #7 September 4, 2006 The more I read about this one the more this one stinks. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #8 September 4, 2006 There are ALWAYS repercussions for going into Iowa.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #9 September 4, 2006 nothiung wrong with the exit speed or altitude, just a bunch of people who neglected to consider their AADs, expensive lessons, that they will hopefully learn fromYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #10 September 4, 2006 All joking aside, if anyone knows anything about the injured jumpers, please PM me. A large percentage of the staff and regular jumpers at my DZ are currently there.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #11 September 4, 2006 Quotenothiung wrong with the exit speed or altitude, just a bunch of people who neglected to consider their AADs, expensive lessons, that they will hopefully learn from I know I wouldn't be entirely comfortable getting out at 2K in a non-emergency situation on a pass with a cut. If I were to do it, it'd be planned on the ground where I could make an informed decision about my AAD w.r.t. my snively main, not in the air. I'd be particularly uncomfortable on a high-speed pass. That's just me, of course. Regardless of individual comfort level, there's definitely something wrong with it if you don't know you're getting out at 2,000 feet (see incident thread, which seems to indicate this was the case). And if you don't even know you're getting out at 2K, how on earth can you be expected to consider all the rest of it ... (then again, as I've said in this thread and in incidents ... something stinks about this whole thing, and I suspect the whole "oh we didn't know" may just be a cover-up for the carnage that ensued.) Sigh. (not to mention that if any of the jumpers involved had an A or B license, they were in violation of USPA's BSRs for container opening altitudes. That, however, seems to be the least of the problems here. )"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #12 September 4, 2006 I'd be ok getting out at 1,800 with a cut, BSRs notwithstanding. However, I wouldn't do it on a high speed pass unless I were planning on using my reserve. Lest we not forget, you'll be SLOWING DOWN to terminal at that point.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #13 September 4, 2006 What!? Are you saying these people said they didn't know that they were getting out at 2,000 feet? Couldn't they have looked out of the plane?May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #14 September 4, 2006 QuoteWhat!? Are you saying these people said they didn't know that they were getting out at 2,000 feet? Couldn't they have looked out of the plane? You mean take personal responsibility? Xenu forbid!cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #15 September 4, 2006 QuoteWhat!? Are you saying these people said they didn't know that they were getting out at 2,000 feet? Couldn't they have looked out of the plane? Read the thread in Incidents. The mind boggles."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #16 September 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat!? Are you saying these people said they didn't know that they were getting out at 2,000 feet? Couldn't they have looked out of the plane? Read the thread in Incidents. The mind boggles. Tell me about it. Tickets were $23. The weather hold reduced ticket price was $15, no guarantee on altitude. Weather holds are always the most dangerous time for skydivers...."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #17 September 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat!? Are you saying these people said they didn't know that they were getting out at 2,000 feet? Couldn't they have looked out of the plane? Read the thread in Incidents. The mind boggles. I just read the incident thread, and I'm amazed that people seemed to not know the exit alti. In relation to the high speed 2000' exit, the higher speed will work to your advantage on a short delay exit, your canopy will open quicker then a standard HnP. Even with a snivelling canopy you have quite a decent amount of time from 2000' (remember you are not at terminal)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #18 September 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat!? Are you saying these people said they didn't know that they were getting out at 2,000 feet? Couldn't they have looked out of the plane? Read the thread in Incidents. The mind boggles. I guess it's time to slap Dave (streaker) around a bit!May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #19 September 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat!? Are you saying these people said they didn't know that they were getting out at 2,000 feet? Couldn't they have looked out of the plane? Read the thread in Incidents. The mind boggles. I just read the incident thread, and I'm amazed that people seemed to not know the exit alti. In relation to the high speed 2000' exit, the higher speed will work to your advantage on a short delay exit, your canopy will open quicker then a standard HnP. Even with a snivelling canopy you have quite a decent amount of time from 2000' (remember you are not at terminal) Do you wanna pull at a superterminal speed? I don't, if it can be avoided. THen again, I'm a big dude, lots of momentum But yeah, if you get stable then get big for a couple of seconds then pull, I suppose you'd slow down quite a bit.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #20 September 4, 2006 Quote[reply Do you wanna pull at a superterminal speed? I don't, if it can be avoided. THen again, I'm a big dude, lots of momentum But yeah, if you get stable then get big for a couple of seconds then pull, I suppose you'd slow down quite a bit. That's why I said "SHORT DELAY", you slow down pretty quickly off the doorYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #21 September 4, 2006 Whoops, didn't see that. Just got off of a ten hour shift at work cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #22 September 4, 2006 Quote Even with a snivelling canopy you have quite a decent amount of time from 2000' (remember you are not at terminal) I was just saying what my personal comfort level would be. I've gotten out as low as 2.5K from a 182. I'm glad to know I can do that should it be necessary in an emergency situation; I also probably wouldn't choose to get out any lower than that on any other jump because it puts my opening altitude right at my decision altitude. I'm a static-line baby who grew up in a Cessna DZ in a region known for crappy weather, so I've done a lot of hop & pops. I'm quite confident and comfortable in my ability to get out and get stable quickly. I don't need to prove my balls are bigger than someone else's by getting out on a 2K high-speed pass. I'm also used to waiting out weather and being patient. I'd like to think I would have ridden that plane back down. Or at the very least, been aware of my exit altitude and exited accordingly. The fact that there were four AAD fires leads me to believe these jumpers didn't do a good H&P exit. Why would you if you thought you were getting out at 6.5K and had plenty of time?"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #23 September 4, 2006 **shaking head** I can not believe that no one on the plane looked at their frickin' altimeters nor looked before being a lemming and going out the door. I'm glad there were no fatalities, and I hope that the injured people heal quickly with as little pain as possible. QuoteSo the moral of the story is: just say no to low altitude, high-speed skyvan loads with ADD equipped rigs! No. The moral of the story is: KNOW YOUR ALTITUDE AND LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP!!! Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #24 September 4, 2006 QuoteSo like many other stories, this starts with bad weather and a bunch or skydivers looking for something to do. The boogie organizer announces that the skyvan will do high-speed passes. The pilot announces he’s trying to reach 6,000 feet but they only reach 2000. So the groups start to leave the plane and as we watch from the ground, we see main canopies opening. Off course, because everyone is so low, the next thing that happens is that AAD start to fire. First 2, the 2 more and the 1 last one. So, some people chop their main, one had an entanglement with the main and one rode a downplane all the way to the ground. So at the end, we had 5 AAD fires and 2 injured skydivers. So the moral of the story is: just say no to low altitude, high-speed skyvan loads with ADD equipped rigs! What do you think? What do I think? I think I'm glad everyone is alive. Holy Cow! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #25 September 4, 2006 Jumping out at 2k???? That's freakin stupid. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
