new Iowa State AAD fire record :-)

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Jumping out at 2k????

That's freakin stupid.

I disagree. I've done it a bunch of times and have absolutely no problem with it whether wearing a Cypres-equipped rig or not. It may be stupid for *you* to do it (I have no idea whether it is or not) but it's definitely not stupid for everyone.

Walt

[shropshire 0]

2K isn't loooow..

But the only thinks that should leave low and fast should be palletised

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Squeak 17]

Quote

2K isn't loooow..

But the only thinks that should leave low and fast should be palletised

Like in XXX now that's a low exit PCA'd of cousre

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[pullhigh 0]

I never thought I'd say this about something Waly posted, , But that's about the smartest thing I've read in this thread yet...


AAD or not, know your canopy, know yourself, know your altitude.

Ganja

[Orlando 0]

Quote

So, some people chop their main, one had an entanglement with the main and one rode a downplane all the way to the ground.

I got the oportunity to talk with one of the persons involved and corrected my numbers.

Two landed in a side by side configuration, one entangled, one downplane, and one cutaway. 5 in total.

Saludos,
Orlando
Hispa #48 || www.amador.org || Xtreme Divers

[windcatcher 0]

Jumping out at 2k IS stupid, but that's just MY *opinion. Jumping out at such a low altitude doesn't seem very safe to me.

And yes, the fact that I've done two BASE jumps I'm sure many people think is stupid as well, but for some reason jumping out of a plane at 2k seems less on the safe side than BASE. I know, I'm a freak.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[Fast 0]

Quote

Jumping out at 2k IS stupid, but that's just MY *opinion. Jumping out at such a low altitude doesn't seem very safe to me.

And yes, the fact that I've done two BASE jumps I'm sure many people think is stupid as well, but for some reason jumping out of a plane at 2k seems less on the safe side than BASE. I know, I'm a freak.

If you really thing that second part is true you have things quite mixed up. For the record, I have nothing against base jumping what so ever. I just think its looney to consider it less dangerous than making a fairly routine skydive.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[normiss 801]

YAHTZEE!!!

• Quote

[ntacfreefly 0]

Quote

Jumping out at 2k IS stupid, but that's just MY *opinion. Jumping out at such a low altitude doesn't seem very safe to me.

Ahh, so you'd rather have your first time getting out at that altitude, ever, be when the pilot has an emergency and says "get out"?

IMO, low PREPARED exits are a pretty damn good thing to do. Everyone should be prepared for them.

IMO being unprepared is a stupid and unsafe thing to do.

Blues.
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Jumping out at 2k IS stupid, but that's just MY *opinion. Jumping out at such a low altitude doesn't seem very safe to me.

And yes, the fact that I've done two BASE jumps I'm sure many people think is stupid as well, but for some reason jumping out of a plane at 2k seems less on the safe side than BASE. I know, I'm a freak.

I really don't mean to argue. Everyone has their own guidelines and I respect that. I've been in the sport for a while and for many years, 2 grand was a very routine pull altitude and that was from terminal.

Using the rule of thumb that the first 1000 ft. of freefall takes 10 secs. and every 1000 ft. after that takes 5 secs (for belly flyers, of course), pulling at two grand from terminal means you are 10 secs. from impact. Exiting at two grand means you are about 15 secs from impact.

From that standpoint, a two grand hop 'n' pop is roughly equivalent to pulling at three grand at terminal.

Equipment has evolved a great deal over the years, though, and for many jumpers--especially those with AADs and canopies designed to open slowly--dumping at two grand is not a good idea. Their equipment simply isn't suited for it.

That is not true for all jumpers, though. I can quite confidently exit at two grand and have done so many times.

It wasn't the exit altitude that so shocking in this case, it was the lack of altitude awareness on the part of the jumpers. I continue to hope that the initial reports of these jumpers being unaware of their exit altitude were wrong.

Walt

[ntacfreefly 0]

Quote

It wasn't the exit altitude that so shocking in this case, it was the lack of altitude awareness on the part of the jumpers.

Spot on Walt.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[shropshire 0]

2K is only low to the modern AFF trained peeps.

AFF is a great training aid, but gives people too much freefall too soon, in my opinion.. there is no substitute for jump numbers..... at ALL legal altitudes.


Altitude awareness is one of the very 1st things that is drilled into us when we start jumping, so why did so many people on this load forget those lessons?


.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[bbarnhouse 0]

The raft dive...well there ARE signs in the aircraft limiting the number of people exiting at the same time in the skyvan.
If 16 rush the door...you can expect the skyvan to stall. (thanks to those that saw fit to give the pilot a gift. The pilot was the only one tottering as you were teetering the aircraft...well done on that account)The limit people...is 10. The raft...it stayed in the aircraft.

As to the AAD fires, well if one launches a chunk of any size and expects to fly it from 2k it's no wonder that there were fires. All jumpers were informed at the briefing that they would exit at the base. It might be 2k ...it might be 6 and they should be prepared to exit or ride the plane down.
The jumpers chose to jump and the pilot is not responsible for that decision.

[Fast 0]

Quote

The raft dive...well there ARE signs in the aircraft limiting the number of people exiting at the same time in the skyvan.
If 16 rush the door...you can expect the skyvan to stall. (thanks to those that saw fit to give the pilot a gift. The pilot was the only one tottering as you were teetering the aircraft...well done on that account)The limit people...is 10. The raft...it stayed in the aircraft.

As to the AAD fires, well if one launches a chunk of any size and expects to fly it from 2k it's no wonder that there were fires. All jumpers were informed at the briefing that they would exit at the base. It might be 2k ...it might be 6 and they should be prepared to exit or ride the plane down.
The jumpers chose to jump and the pilot is not responsible for that decision.

Yep! People need to take responsibility for themselves. The account I was told by a jumper on the plane was that there was an 8 way and 4-6 way group in front of him and another guy who were going to do a 2 way. When the green light came on the 8 way went, and his two way decided to exit solo since they were only at 2k.

People need to take responsibility for themselves. 2000 feet isn't my perfered exit altitude, but if we turn jump run and thats all we are getting, I won't be riding the plane down.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[wmw999 2,447]

Quote

2000 feet isn't my perfered exit altitude, but if we turn jump run and thats all we are getting, I won't be riding the plane down.

If I had a canopy that took 1000 feet to open, I'd seriously consider riding the plane down.

Good thing I don't.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[hexadecimal 0]

Just say no to stupid.

It's pretty clear that every person who exited on that pass was a moron.

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

Just say no to stupid.

It's pretty clear that every person who exited on that pass was a moron.

So - tell me, please, how can I be this judgemental. I really want to learn how. Is there like a Four Year College you have to go to? Is there a degree that I can get?

I am SOOOO in envy of your proficiency.

Please - don't keep it a secret - how did you get so good?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

People need to take responsibility for themselves. 2000 feet isn't my perfered exit altitude, but if we turn jump run and thats all we are getting, I won't be riding the plane down.

You've got enough jumps where I'm assuming you know what you're getting into when you exit the airplane at 2k. Sure 99% of the time things will work (building the sense of security and invincibility). But all it takes is that one time to be under a violently spinning main which eats up tons of altitude and the next thing you know (within seconds) you're less than one thousand feet and now what are you going to do? You may still be able to cutaway and deploy your reserve. Or you may have already gone too low. I've exited the airplane at 2k before and back then I had the same attitude you have now. But things change and you won't see me exit the aircraft that low any more. The infamous "Ron" in the incidents thread has already insinuated that I'm chicken for my current attitude and that's okay. Having some fear in this sport is good. It helps keep complacency away and we should all know that complacency kills. So in summary, yes I believe that you have enough experience in this sport to make your own decisions and you still feel that exiting the aircraft at low altitude is okay. But for the others with not enough experience, they really should take a second to think about "what if" before they follow their friends out the door.

If people are into the ground rush of pulling low, take up BASE jumping. The gear is designed to open faster and more reliable than skydiving gear.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Quote

Just say no to stupid.

It's pretty clear that every person who exited on that pass was a moron.

So - tell me, please, how can I be this judgemental. I really want to learn how. Is there like a Four Year College you have to go to? Is there a degree that I can get?

I am SOOOO in envy of your proficiency.

?

You underestimate yourself Clint,

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Just say no to stupid.

It's pretty clear that every person who exited on that pass was a moron.

So - tell me, please, how can I be this judgemental. I really want to learn how. Is there like a Four Year College you have to go to? Is there a degree that I can get?

I am SOOOO in envy of your proficiency.

?

You underestimate yourself Clint,

Moi?

Nes' pas (Yeah Yeah Yeah - it's close though)

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[raftman 12]

As I read these posts it becomes clear to me: There is a break in the time/space continuem in Iowa that prevents altis from functioning properly.



OR, perhaps it was a mass self induced hypnosis in which they made themselves believe they were at 6000'.

[hexadecimal 0]

Quote

Please - don't keep it a secret - how did you get so good?

I was born that way.

[Fast 0]

Quote

Quote

People need to take responsibility for themselves. 2000 feet isn't my perfered exit altitude, but if we turn jump run and thats all we are getting, I won't be riding the plane down.

You've got enough jumps where I'm assuming you know what you're getting into when you exit the airplane at 2k. Sure 99% of the time things will work (building the sense of security and invincibility). But all it takes is that one time to be under a violently spinning main which eats up tons of altitude and the next thing you know (within seconds) you're less than one thousand feet and now what are you going to do? You may still be able to cutaway and deploy your reserve. Or you may have already gone too low. I've exited the airplane at 2k before and back then I had the same attitude you have now. But things change and you won't see me exit the aircraft that low any more. The infamous "Ron" in the incidents thread has already insinuated that I'm chicken for my current attitude and that's okay. Having some fear in this sport is good. It helps keep complacency away and we should all know that complacency kills. So in summary, yes I believe that you have enough experience in this sport to make your own decisions and you still feel that exiting the aircraft at low altitude is okay. But for the others with not enough experience, they really should take a second to think about "what if" before they follow their friends out the door.

If people are into the ground rush of pulling low, take up BASE jumping. The gear is designed to open faster and more reliable than skydiving gear.

Yeah, your right. My opinion might change when I am jumping something that is loaded higher, crossbraced, and opens like shit. For now though thats not really an issue.

Anyways, I was trying to make a couple points and was being too short in it. People taking responsibility for themselves is a comment seperate from my choice to jump from 2k. The comments on the latter were more in regard to the claims that base was safer than jumping at 2k. Which I disagree with. It also goes somewhat to all the people who say that its absolutely nuts to jump from that low. I am sure there are people who would want a BSR to prevent exit altitudes that low.

If I couldn't exit stable I sure wouldn't do it, but it's a skill everyone should have.

You are right though, you have to think a bit more about it. There is a lot less time to fix problems.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[hexadecimal 0]

Even if you could exit stable on a high speed pass, would you want to deploy right out the door while going 170mph+?

[ryno1972 0]

Have to agree with you on this. I have done a couple of low hop n pops, 2000 feet, and one at 1800 feet. My AAD was turned off. I knew I was at or around 2000 feet because I look at my altimeter before every exit.

I also own an older canopy, PD170, which opens very rapidly by modern equipment standards. I am used to my canopy and like its characteristics. At lower altitudes, I exit, get stable and throw. The canopy deploys behind my back, no problem.

Anyway, every body makes an occasional bad decision, but at least take respondsibility for your actions.