new Iowa State AAD fire record :-)

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Yeah, perhaps it is all relative. Doing the math though.... the reserve needs, what 500' to safely open?

TSO C23C requires a reserves to open in 3 seconds following a cutaway and they should open in 350 feet at terminal.

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The average main takes, what, 700' to open?

At terminal. MUCH less on a hop and pop. MUCH MUCH less with a fast airplane. 700' is 4.2 seconds. 4.2 seconds from a zero decent rate is 282 feet.

[Reginald 0]

Yeah, I’m with Butters on this one. A person doesn’t have to do 2k exits to practice emergency bailouts. Every hop n pop I do I practice pulling right after I pass the tail of the plane. My canopy normally takes 800 feet to open at terminal. I know for a hop n pop I loose less than 400 feet. I’ve done dozens and dozens of hop n pops from 3 to 5k. The lowest I’ve actually ever gotten out of a plane is 2,500 feet, however. I’ve pitched at terminal at 2,000 plenty of times, not that I’m a fan of it honestly, but for various reasons it had to be done.

Am I comfortable exiting at 2K in needed? Sure. Why? Because I practice up higher. Am I comfortable exiting below 2k in a true emergency? Yes. Do I need to practice 2k exits to be comfortable with them? No. Honestly, at a turbine DZ they can't get the plane turned around fast enough to get back over the DZ at 2k so it’s kind of a moot point.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Butters 0]

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I may be wrong but people have stated that you should practice exiting at 2,000ft in the case you have to exit from 2,000ft in an emergency. Wouldn't it be wiser to practice exiting at 3,000ft while pretending you were exiting from 2,000ft (pretend that 1,000ft is the ground)?

I can't speak for others, but I know I've done plenty of clear and pulls from low as well as high altitudes and wouldn't be worried about knowing how to exit stable. But I'd like to know what handle people are planning to pull when they exit the aircraft at 2k or below? We know there are plenty of skygods around here who claim it will never happen to them because they've successfully gone to their mains after all these jumps. But if I'm in a disabled airplane and I need to exit it at 2k or below, rest assured I'll be going for my reserve handle. Then again I'm not as cool as some of these skygods.

And to the skygods out there who still think 2k freaks me out. Why don't you come join me and some friends at our local 180 foot span and/or local 300 foot cliff. You may see some fear in my eyes, but if the weather conditions are right, I'll still jump. Fear is a good thing in our sport(s). It helps prevent us from becoming too complacent.

Ok, I just went over this with my instructor to determine at what altitudes I would pull what handles. Easier for me because I can not pull the main below 2,750ft because of my AAD (unless I disable it which I don't believe I would have time to do in the case of an emergency). I was also told that once I take my seatbelt off in the airplane I am declaring that I am jumping out of the airplane (in the case of an emergency if I don't jump I will either be pushed out out of the way or out of the plane).

Thinking about this makes me understand why some people have concerns about other peoples plans in an emergency procedure. If I were sitting in the last out position I want to know everyone else is getting out and fast in an emergency procedure so I have time to get out.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Remster 30]

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there are plenty of skygods around here who claim it will never happen to them because they've successfully gone to their mains after all these jumps.

Steve,

stop with the Skygod namecalling.

Remster

[ntacfreefly 0]

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But I'd like to know what handle people are planning to pull when they exit the aircraft at 2k or below? We know there are plenty of skygods around here who claim it will never happen to them because they've successfully gone to their mains after all these jumps.

Katie did a hop n pop from 2g's. Had a spinning mal. Cutaway, and was still under her reserve in time (AFTER a hard cutaway).

Being prepared for a malfunction and NOT DICKING AROUND AT ALL at that altitude is better, IMO, than going straight for the last chance.

Honestly Steve, I don't really care what you pull out the door at 2k. Your gear, your life, your choice. Just make sure you get out if you need to

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[CanuckInUSA 0]

As much as I don't want to lose gear, losing it is the least of my worries in an emergency. So my current mindset remains. I will (hopefully) go for my reserve if/when I find myself below 2k (not counting planned low jumps where a docile main is used).

Plus lets not forget that several years ago I joined the Cypres club when mine fired at the very tail end of my main canopy's snivel. I was totally at fault for my temporary loss of AA coming off of a head down jump and while I have video to show myself initiating my pull ever so slightly above 2k, it wasn't enough to prevent the Cypres from firing. And what happened to me can happen to anyone regardless of how many jumps they've made. Our gear, the sort of jumps we do, the variable WX conditions we fly it in couldn't careless about how many jumps you've made in your career. If you're traveling fast, or are in thin air, or are not in the classic belly to earth orientation, yes there is a good chance your (if you jump one) Cypres will fire before the advertized 750 foot altitude.

PS: my testy'ness towards possible SGs are not directed at you Ian.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Ron 10]

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But I'd like to know what handle people are planning to pull when they exit the aircraft at 2k or below?

With my current main (over 2800 jumps on type):
2k to 1700 main with hands on the handles. USPA recomends a 1800 foot decision altitude.

Below 1700 reserve.

New or unfamiliar main:
2 or below reserve.

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But if I'm in a disabled airplane and I need to exit it at 2k or below, rest assured I'll be going for my reserve handle.

I knew a guy that thought the same thing....He bounced. Fact is most people will go for the main and not even think about the reserve. Years ago, I personally screwed up and found myself LOW. I had about 200-300 jumps (just like these guys have). My mind yelled "reserve!" While I was reaching for the handle...My main was already opening.

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The infamous "Ron" in the incidents thread has already insinuated that I'm chicken for my current attitude and that's okay.

BTW while I do not care about your personal choice of straight to the reserve...And if you notice I never said anything about your CHOICE. I do think that you claiming that anyone that would go for a main at 2K as being stupid is not correct. Just because it is not what you would do, does not mean it is stupid/dangerous...ect.

I disagreed with you, and you started the insults. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2417415#2417415

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billeisele 130]

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I may be wrong but people have stated that you should practice exiting at 2,000ft in the case you have to exit from 2,000ft in an emergency. Wouldn't it be wiser to practice exiting at 3,000ft while pretending you were exiting from 2,000ft (pretend that 1,000ft is the ground)?

love the avatar - i agree, practice higher for a wider safety margin, you should then have the confidence to exit lower if needed

for those that grew up on the dope rope - static line for you newer folks - 2.5 to 3K exits were normal so we never were scared, for an AFF student i can understand why they are nervous at lower altitudes

practice now or regret it later - you choose
just like exiting a plane - you choose
just like managing a two-out situation - you choose
not the pilot - the green light is not a command to exit just a suggestion

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[Squeak 17]

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I think this is just more proof that jumpers would even jump out of '57 buick cruising down I-95 if you shined a green light in their face.

As long as it's at a Boogie, what's wrong w/ that?

Here hold my pilotchute and beer and watch this

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?