bertusgeert 1 #1 September 6, 2006 No one, not a my music major friends or my engineering friends can give me a reason why: Why does a C note on a guitar sound different from the same C note on a Piano from a trumpet etc.? It's all the same frequency - what is the difrentiating characteristic? --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydemon2 0 #2 September 6, 2006 you do know your in Bonfire ...... right? Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone! I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #3 September 6, 2006 QuoteNo one, not a my music major friends or my engineering friends can give me a reason why: Why does a C note on a guitar sound different from the same C note on a Piano from a trumpet etc.? It's all the same frequency It's the same fundamental frequency although each musical instrument has a unique set of harmonics (multiples of the fundamental frequency) that it emits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #4 September 6, 2006 A C note is not just a certain frequency.. like 1,000 Hz or something. For the most part.. musical instruments do not play pure tones (isolated frequencies) they play a group of harmonically related frequencies which your ear matches to a certain note. A C note has a certain pitch.. which is closely matched to the note's fundamental frequency. For ease, lets assume that the fundamental frequency of a C note is 250 Hz. When played from an instrument, other frequencies that are harmonically related (multiples of the fundamental frequency, in this case 500, 750 1,000 Hz.. etc.) will also be present. The variance in the number and strength of the harmonics that are present is what changes the sound of the note.. from a mellow sound perhaps played by a flute to a brassy sound from a trumpet. Edited to add an interesting factoid: If someone played the frequencies of 1,500, 1,750 and 2,000 all together to you and asked you to match the pitch of that harmonic complex to a single frequency.. you would pick 250 hz, even though it is not present. Did you know your ear could work out highest common denominators? (Yes I know I'm a bit geeky.) "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #5 September 6, 2006 because there is FAR more to tonality than 'prime' frequency wind instruments have a much 'fatter' waveform than stringed instruments. it would make more sense if you view the C note produced by each instrument on an Oscilloscope edit irrc Concert C is 440____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #6 September 6, 2006 QuoteNo one, not a my music major friends or my engineering friends can give me a reason why: Why does a C note on a guitar sound different from the same C note on a Piano from a trumpet etc.? It's all the same frequency - what is the difrentiating characteristic? Different waveforms and different harmonics."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #7 September 6, 2006 Quoteit would make more sense if you view the C note produced by each instrument on an Oscilloscope a spectrum analyzer would probably show the differences better Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancesWClouds 0 #8 September 6, 2006 Oh sheesh. I was going to get all nerdy and musical too, but everyone else s'plained it lots better than I could. Depending on where you are on the piano, you have from one to three strings per note. For kind of a cool piano overview, CLICKY ( And ain't that "A" 440, Zenister? ) Dances Muff Brother #2169 "You can take the girl out of the sky, but not the sky out of the girl!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #9 September 6, 2006 Harmonics. A music major damn well better know this! Also anyone that has studied acoustics. I did an in-depth study of 20 instruments and their harmonic charistics(sp) If you REALLY need more info I can dig it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #10 September 6, 2006 not for comparing WAVEFORMS... which is where much of the tonal differences are.. the sublte differences in frequency are less obvious as they are BOTH Fundamentally 440. the frequency OVER TIME is more significant in tonal variations between instruments..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #11 September 6, 2006 In addition to the harmonic spectrum mentioned by others, there is also still some variation in pitch from the ISO standard equally tempered scale based on A4 being 440Hz. See, for example: www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory27.htm... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #12 September 6, 2006 Quote ( And ain't that "A" 440, Zenister? ) yea you are correct.. the first A over middle C i was getting it confused with the C itself... music classes were a long time ago in a galaxy far far away..... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #13 September 6, 2006 QuoteHarmonics. A music major damn well better know this! That's what I told her. Now she's my ex. (for different reasons --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #14 September 6, 2006 QuoteNo one, not a my music major friends or my engineering friends can give me a reason why: Why does a C note on a guitar sound different from the same C note on a Piano from a trumpet etc.? It's all the same frequency - what is the difrentiating characteristic? What's even more amazing is that the tone differences can be as variable within a musical instument family as they can be. It's pretty easy to figure out that even tho it has strings, a piano is a percussive instrument, and the tone is different than a stringed instrument, like a violin. What is amazing is that you can have 10 violins from the same maker with totally different tonal qualities.skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #15 September 6, 2006 You sense the freq of 250 hz because on that freq the amplitude of the combine signals (500hz, 750hz, 1000hz) is maximum (the peak)? How does that work if one of the original signal has a different offset (phase)?Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #16 September 6, 2006 Kallend that table of the history of musical pitch is awesome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #17 September 6, 2006 QuoteWhy does a C note on a guitar sound different from the same C note on a Piano from a trumpet etc.? It's all the same frequency - what is the difrentiating characteristic? The characteristic you are speakign of is called "timbre." It is the characteristic that differentiates the same note being made on different things. A trumpet can be playing the same pitch (which is the vibrating frequency) and volume as a sax, but we'll know the difference between the two. Timbre is also what differentiates people's voices. There are a lot of things that affect timbre. Think of a trumpet. Now, put a toilet plunger over the bell and it sounds like a wah trumpet. Only by experience do you know that it a trumpet making that sound. Or, think of a guitar. I could pick up a guitar and it'll sound different playing with fingertips than with a flat pick, and different again with fingerpicks (this is the "attack" portion of timbre). Or, strum it while muting the strings. You even change the sound by picking at different locations from right on the bridge (a very cutting sound) to a smooth and warm sound at a harmonic point). Read up on timbre. It's really pretty interesting stuff. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #18 September 6, 2006 QuoteKallend that table of the history of musical pitch is awesome. The kid (he's principal cello of the Chicago Youth Symphony) tells me that various major orchestras still tune to different pitches. Soloists often tune slightly higher than the rest of the orchestra so their instrument sounds brighter and dominant (that is, the orchestra may tune to A=442, and the soloist tunes to A=444, etc).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindercles 0 #19 September 6, 2006 Did you hear the one about the pirate who sang vibrato? He said "arrr, shiver me timbre." (yeah, I made that up, so sue me!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #20 September 6, 2006 QuoteNo one, not a my music major friends or my engineering friends can give me a reason why: Why does a C note on a guitar sound different from the same C note on a Piano from a trumpet etc.? It's all the same frequency - what is the difrentiating characteristic? Just to re-emphasize - it MAY NOT all be the same frequency, depending on the pitch reference, tuning and temperament in use. We are accustomed to the ISO440 pitch and 12EDO tuning, but there are others, and old instruments in particular may be differently pitched and tuned.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
