Skydiving vs Driving. Which is safer?

[Madman 0]

The BOC was inspected and wasn't bound up at all.

[kallend 2,070]

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Moved this from Wisconsin Fatal thread.

Please continue discussion here.

t

I didn't start this discussion - my post was a link to an article about the accident.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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According to USPA there were 2.2 million jumps in 2005 in the US with 27 deaths. This is about .0000122%

according to caraccidents.com,
In 2002, there were an estimated 6,316,000 car accidents in the USA. There were about 2.9 million injuries and 42,815 people were killed in auto accidents in 2002. (.00678% chance of dieing in car accident)

why are you dividing deaths into accidents for cars?

290 million / 42815 gives you roughly 1 in 6700 Americans dying in 2002. Versus 1 in 1000 for us.

[LisaH 0]

I'm not sure what this thread is really all about as I haven't read it all, but in regards to the title I will have to say that in my opinion...skydiving is safer.

This past weekend my friend and I were at Elsinore so she could start her AFF. She had 2 great jumps with no problems at all. She was so excited that she did well. On her way home last night (we took separate cars) she gets nailed on the freeway, spins out over 4 lanes, hits a sign, airbag did not deploy and the car is totalled. She's banged up, but ok.
And still wants to jump next weekend

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[Rainbo 0]

I think Lisa the meaning of this thread is to give the meaningless banter a place to happen. Unfortunately we are all experts every time a posting goes up in incidents. We do not even give time for the data to be compiled and published from an authoratative figure from an investigation perspective. We would all much rather jump on the speculation bandwagon and sling crap at each other.
Like someone else said I usually pick up the incident here and then get the real story from those who can give it. Here we always have a million "I bet it was this or that" before the truth even starts to make it to the sudface, even then it usually is lost in the nonsense.

Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Depends, is it me driving?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[LisaH 0]

Guess I posted my opinion in the wrong place then Oh well

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[AggieDave 6]

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Like someone else said I usually pick up the incident here and then get the real story from those who can give it. Here we always have a million "I bet it was this or that" before the truth even starts to make it to the sudface, even then it usually is lost in the nonsense.

I bet this post had alcohol as a contributing factor.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ron 10]

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all of you are a bunch of fucking retards.

Very mature....Feel free to think you already know it all....But you don't.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Duckwater 0]

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all of you are a bunch of fucking retards.

You can never call driving or skydiving statistically safer than the other. Too many variables and measures.

You can call Newbie Joe safer than Newbie Bob. Joe is safer than Bob because Joe listens to people that have lived through thosands of jumps and follows their advice. Emulate the wise and experienced.

Bob thinks he can figure it all out on his own, even though common sense would say otherwise in any endeavour.

Joe wears his seatbelt, slows down in rain and never drives drunk.

Bob goes 90 down the shoulder stoned and with low tires because everybody else is a retard and we have to die sometime.

Skydiving is not overly dangerous.
Driving is not overly dangerous.

I would say if someone is both a safe driver and a safe skydiver, skydiving is probably more dangerous.

The biggest killer is skydiving and driving is attitude.
The mediums of death are merely a vehicle for a dangerous individual to commit the inevitable.
Just like guns, they need a moron with a brain to become dangerous.

[Duckwater 0]

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all of you are a bunch of fucking retards. People die. It happens. NO matter from a car, a boat, a tractor, old age, too much pussy, not enough perhaps, suicide....whatever...shit happens...you die and people miss you...then life goes on. Personally I plan on jumping every day I can and hittin terminal velocity as often as possible. Then one day some other dumbass like you guys can make stupid comments about my death.

One more thing, regulator. I hope you are a troll faking that attitude to get a rise out of us.

If you are real, consider this:
While you go flailing around the sky teaching yourself to freefly or flying your canopy improperly in the pattern, you have a very real possibility of killing someone else.

While you dont mind pushing daisies tomorrow while 'living life to the fullest', the rest of us prefer to live life to the fullest by making thousands of jumps, enjoying friends and family as long as possible. The balance between quantity and quality is a lot closer to quantity for the most of us. The 'fun level' difference between conservative and reckless skydiving is miniscule.

I had your attitude at one point. I had a friend smack me down hard. It saved my life from my own attitude. Luckily I learned it before I started skydiving.

I will never be on the same load as you, in the same car as you or let you have scissors until the attitude does a 180. If I was the DZO,,,,you would be history.

I wonder what medum you will end up chosing to end it all with. Please, dont take anyone with you.

[Dolph 0]

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I'm not sure what this thread is really all about as I haven't read it all, but in regards to the title I will have to say that in my opinion...skydiving is safer.

Stay in the sport long enough and your opinion is likely to change.

It might also be worthwhile to read the various threads here on DZ.com. The condolences and sweet memory threads are particularly enlightening in regards to getting a better understanding of the risks involved and the effects of having friends die.

Just to get yourself prepared so to speak. There's a dark side to the sport that one has a tendency not to see as a new jumper. That innocence can quickly be taken away.

[LisaH 0]

Just to get yourself prepared so to speak. There's a dark side to the sport that one has a tendency not to see as a new jumper. That innocence can quickly be taken away.

hehe..I'm over the "scared" thing now

I'm hip to y'all pros Trying to scare us LOL

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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Trying to scare us LOL

Im pretty sure he wasnt , your not HIP , your wrong, and you WILL know or watch someone die , and you WILL know they died for a hobby if you stay long enough.

No wonder experienced jumpers mock us students , half of us act like they are the exception to the fucking path of the sport thats been passed down to us.

Want to know the "dark" side? You spend alot of time getting to know someone in an extreme setting where life stories, fears, loves and joys are known much faster then in the real world. One day you shake their hand on the plane, and a week later your watching their ashes be released in the air. See how safe this sport feels when you get to start your own lost friends list.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Duckwater 0]

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Stay in the sport long enough and your opinion is likely to change.

I agree...A lot of deaths are preventable.

But, the unavoidable ones where they did everything right, are significant.

You have to think of safety in terms of exposure to risk.

Certainly your exposure falling from 12,000 ft with other relatively non-policed people, in which the trajectories of others is converging in 3 dimensions, and relying on fairly complex equipment, whos major failure is likely fatal is greater than:

Riding in a car with ABS, 6 airbags, police doing their best to keep dangerous indiviuals off the street and a lot of the time at the same relative speed and direction is less exposure to risk, even taking the fact that the time of exposure is far greater.

If you take injuries into account, there is no contest, I know more skydivers that have had at least a cast than didn't.

Edited to add...Lisamarie....I think LisaH was kidding...I think she meant shes over the scared thing for the 'smart' thing???

[LisaH 0]

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Trying to scare us LOL

Im pretty sure he wasnt , your not HIP , your wrong, and you WILL know or watch someone die , and you WILL know they died for a hobby if you stay long enough.

No wonder experienced jumpers mock us students , half of us act like they are the exception to the fucking path of the sport thats been passed down to us.

Want to know the "dark" side? You spend alot of time getting to know someone in an extreme setting where life stories, fears, loves and joys are known much faster then in the real world. One day you shake their hand on the plane, and a week later your watching their ashes be released in the air. See how safe this sport feels when you get to start your own lost friends list.

LisaM...I was being laid back with this thread.
Just having fun. Didn't mean for this to get heavy. I
I've seen people die. I found my brother dead in his apartment.

And as a newbie...what is HIp?

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I see, no harm then, I thought it was a serious thing. Was wondering why it was in the bon-fire and well Ive read it alot on the forums about this topic ...

The hip, oh that was cause you said you were hip to the old timers...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[LisaH 0]

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I see, no harm then, I thought it was a serious thing. Was wondering why it was in the bon-fire and well Ive read it alot on the forums about this topic ...

The hip, oh that was cause you said you were hip to the old timers...

Not an old timer on dz.com..just old timer in age

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[lisamariewillbe 1]

BTW dont you still owe me for helping to sell your camera... your BROKEN camera? My stick figure lisence and what not

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[airtwardo 7]

Want to know the "dark" side? You spend alot of time getting to know someone in an extreme setting where life stories, fears, loves and joys are known much faster then in the real world. One day you shake their hand on the plane, and a week later your watching their ashes be released in the air. See how safe this sport feels when you get to start your own lost friends list.


***

~Without even considering the statical analyzations being debated in the thread, which seem to bear out my personal gut feeling...

Skydiving is more dangerous.

For years I spouted the 'party line' that more people are killed on the way to & from the DZ than while there. But in retrospect, that's not in fact the case.

Most all of my friends drive and a considerably smaller circle of friends jump...my 'dead friends' list so to speak, is weighted much heavier on the skydiver~friend side.

We all convince ourselves it can't happen to 'me'...I'm too good, too smart, too careful, too lucky...it's the 'other' guy that'll be 'checking out-no baggage'.

Then your list grows, Joe Svec, Jan Davis, Tom Piras, Carl & Roger Nelson, on and on...friends with more talent, expertise and experience than I could EVER hope to achieve...Gone.

Sure I have friends that have been killed on the roads, but none of THEM were as dedicated, skilled, conscientious, PROSESSIONAL in their approach to driving ...as the friends I've lost jumping were to 'their passion'.


Robin Heid made a comment in last months SKYDIVING Magazine to the effect that it takes more motor skills and attention to the possible variables
confronted with, driving a car than it does to make a skydive...maybe so.

But deep down in my gut, I know that the skies even more so than the seas are totally unforgiving to those that would error...and face it, we ALL make mistakes.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skymama 37]

Please read the forum rules. Make a post with personal attacks in it again and you'll be banned.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Tonto 1]

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I didn't start this discussion - my post was a link to an article about the accident.

Yes. The article you posted contained the following quote.

"Statistically, you have a better chance of getting hurt or killed on Wisconsin roads, Dahms said."

Someone replied to your post with that quote. Had I split the discussion from that person's post, the possibility existed of ANOTHER poster answering your post in the same way, thus spawning mulitple Skydiving vs Driving threads.

So I edited the title to your post and moved this to General. Another Mod must have moved it to Bonfire.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Like someone else said I usually pick up the incident here and then get the real story from those who can give it. Here we always have a million "I bet it was this or that" before the truth even starts to make it to the sudface, even then it usually is lost in the nonsense.

I bet this post had alcohol as a contributing factor.

I highly doubt that Dave!

[Thanatos340 1]

Skydiving is Dangerous. You can do everything right and still die. Please don’t ever forget that.

If you can accept that and want to continue jumping, Please do. Most of us here have accepted this and choose to go on anyway. But please do not deceive yourself by thinking that Driving is more dangerous. It is not. Not even close.

Respect what you are doing that risk you are taking. It is not a anything like driving on the freeway where chances are that you will walk away from most accidents. A Skydiving accident generally results in a SERIOUS injury or Fatality.

Be safe, Have fun and Look good for the Camera!!

[wildblue 7]

This topic has come up about a million times on this site. I think the closest anyone ever came to a somewhat accurate comparision was that each skydiving was roughly equal to driving 650 miles in a car. Riding a motorcycle on the other hand was something stupid like each skydive was like riding 30 miles... something silly close like that, I don't forget the exact numbers and I don't feel like searching. Personally, I think I'm more likely to die on my bike than skydiving, but I'm also more likely to die skydiving than driving my car. I actually think I'm more likely to get hit by a bus crossing the street downtown than driving - even with the way I drive

Skydiving is dangerous, don't lie to yourself or others about it. When I started jumping I heard "Stay in the sport long enough, you'll have a good friend die doing it" I always believed it a little, but after 7 years of jumping and only having briefly met a few people that later died, I started thinking maybe it was one of those things that happened to other people, not me. I was recently proven wrong on that thought.

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Flying is inherently dangerous. We like to gloss that over with clever rhetoric and comforting statistics, but these facts remain: gravity is constant and powerful, and speed kills. In combination, they are particularly destructive.

— Dan Manningham

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality