reyno_gr 0 #1 June 25, 2007 A guy at the DZ chopped last weekend. I managed to stay up long enough to identify where the main and freebag landed, and he recovered his gear. I got to wondering if there's any 'science' to where the freebag and main land in relation to one another. Is it more likely the freebag will be found between the location of the chop and the main, or further down wind than the landing point of the main? The chop I saw had the freebag landing further up wind than the main (presumably because the bigger surface area resulted in more surface area to blow it downwind). Assuming both blow in a reasonably straight line along the wind line, having knowledge of this might increase the chance of recovering your freebag...? Thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #2 June 25, 2007 I would think it's more of a function of which one falls slower. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #3 June 25, 2007 I think there are a ton of variables. I have seen one freebag drift 1/5 the distance the main went. I almost caught the freebag but the main was lost for a while some distance a way. Another time I saw a freebag drift father than the main never to be found again. At my homedz the freebag is as good as lost unless you can watch exactly where it lands."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #4 June 25, 2007 I don't think I've seen a freebag land downwind of a main before. It's got that nice heavy spring and not a whole lot of fabric like the main, so it'll usually fall faster and therefore spend less time in the air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #5 June 25, 2007 Wow! I can tell you your theory checks out with my case. Free bag was between the place of the act and the main. Well done! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMax 0 #6 June 25, 2007 Quote I almost caught the freebag ... Perhaps you should read this: http://www.dropzone.com/fatalities/Detailed/36.shtml Catching the cataway parts while under canopy can be very dangerous .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #7 June 25, 2007 QuoteQuote I almost caught the freebag ... Perhaps you should read this: http://www.dropzone.com/fatalities/Detailed/36.shtml Catching the cataway parts while under canopy can be very dangerous .... So? It was not about catching a main. BTW it was not the only mistake that experienced jumpers did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #8 June 25, 2007 Quote Quote Quote I almost caught the freebag ... Perhaps you should read this: http://www.dropzone.com/fatalities/Detailed/36.shtml Catching the cataway parts while under canopy can be very dangerous .... So?emphasis added It was not about catching a main. BTW it was not the only mistake that experienced jumpers did. This exactly the wrong kind of attitude to have when someone tries to point out something that may kill you! Catching anything under canopy, while it's been done many times, is dangerous. A free bag can have the same result. But for the record I expect that the original post about catching it ment on the ground.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #9 June 25, 2007 Quote Quote I almost caught the freebag ... Perhaps you should read this: http://www.dropzone.com/fatalities/Detailed/36.shtml Catching the cataway parts while under canopy can be very dangerous .... Perhaps you should ask if I was under canopy, or in the main landing area catching tandems. I do appreciate the warning though, and it is good information for others as well. As a rule I would never try to catch anything under canopy. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMax 0 #10 June 25, 2007 Quote ... Perhaps you should ask if I was under canopy, or in the main landing area catching tandems ... My impression was that you were trying to catch it in the air ... my bad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #11 June 25, 2007 No harm no foul, I was just teasing.Any time you want to assume that I am missing some critical knowledge that might save my life please tell me!!! I would rather hear it twice then take the chance of never hearing it at all!!! "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #12 June 25, 2007 QuoteI got to wondering if there's any 'science' to where the freebag and main land in relation to one another. They should both be along the wind line, below the point where the cutaway occured. Beyond that, the answer is: "It depends." A main canopy malfunction, after cutaway, can take many forms, with many different fall rates. It could be a tight ball of fabric that falls faster than the free bag, or it could float like a jellyfish and fall slower than the free bag. The variance in fall rate, will determine how far apart they are. They're usually fairly close together, assuming a cut-away at about 2,000 feet. You could probably count the number of seconds between ground impact of the two components, and do some calculation of time versus wind speed to get the approximate distance apart. But I'm not sure it's worth all that math. So all you can practically do is observe which component is doing what in the air as they descend, and then if you find one component, you know which way to go, either upwind or downwind, to find the other. The slower object will be downwind from the faster object, and the faster object will be upwind from the slower object. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lekstrom10k 0 #13 June 25, 2007 Alot depends on the type of malfunction, which goes forther. A line over might leave the canopies opposite side fairly inflated and can fly away possibly in a slow spiral turn etc Usually the free-bag will have the pilot chute holding it up to drift hopefully on the wind line. A bag lock will probably go thud close to the exit point. I was the Captain of a FART[ Free-Bag Aerial Recovery Team]for a while. That means Igot to fly around in low altitude circles while a few people looked out for it.As i said in previous posts try to get a bright colored PC and bag. If you are on the ground and see a cutaway move up to a stationary object {Tree or table etc} Its rhree fingers to the right of that barn etc. Have someone do the same for the main. Then you can return to the same place to show to the searchers. The only tough one is a total or an assumed one because your not looking for a main, because you see a reserve.While you are out looking for a main I have seen people step over cutaway and reserve handles. Not always from that incident, but still valuable Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #14 June 25, 2007 Attached to your main on a typical skyhook cutaway. ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #15 June 26, 2007 QuoteAttached to your main on a typical skyhook cutaway. ;)NICE!!!! Ditto. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 June 26, 2007 George Galloway (Precision Aerodynamics_ sells an electronic gadget to help locate equipment that has been cutaway. He sells it through several major manufacturers in Florida. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peggs82 0 #17 June 27, 2007 Quote George Galloway (Precision Aerodynamics_ sells an electronic gadget to help locate equipment that has been cutaway. He sells it through several major manufacturers in Florida. Too bad the expensive part of that system is the recovery gear. If my dz allready had that gear I would buy it in a heart beat! Even though we could see it from the air, I spent 3 days trying to find my cannopy, when in the end I had walked by it about 20 times!! Perhaps a DZ collection or some dues money could go to the directional gear?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
