Stiletto 107 for a beginner. NO JOKE: READ AND ANSWER

[asphaltpussy 0]

Hi guys,

i just met some austrian nice guy. After a few minutes he told me he was a skydiver too.
But then the story became funny.

I'll keep it short.

He got about 200 jumps and bought a velocity 107.
He started jumping it with 180 jumps.
He bought it because it was cheap.

So please tell me what ya think.
Trying to explain him that it's fucking dangerous.
Nobofy ever told him that before. Not even when he went to a major spanish dz.

Feedback needed now.

edited to correct canopy type

R&D Firebird USA
Skyventure Arizona Instructor
Eloy, AZ

[divnswoop 0]

If he bought a 107 Velo, tell him to keep it.....

...It is one of a kind!

[asphaltpussy 0]

I mean feedback for safety purposes. Not collectibila.

R&D Firebird USA
Skyventure Arizona Instructor
Eloy, AZ

[peek 21]

More info please...

[JustChuteMeNow 0]

Quote

I mean feedback for safety purposes. Not collectibila.

Ok since we are talking safety a Velo-107 is completely safe because like the tooth fariy it doesn't exist. PD doesn't make a Velo-107. It sounds like the guy should have done a little more reserach before he started spinning this yarn :-)

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that.

[NovaTTT 2]

The premise is bogus, yes, but one look at the PD wingload chart will answer the question.

The Velocity is not recommended for any jumper who is not D licensed or equivalent. That said, just having a D license isn't sufficient qulification to pilot a high performance canopy. One has to have experience and training to truly enjoy hp flying.

I'd like to get the 107 - ask your friend if he's selling What's the color scheme?

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[JohnRich 4]

What's the jumper's exit weight?

[likestojump 3]

It may be a Vengeance 107, as Velo was never made in that size.

Otherwise sounds like an idiotic decision either way.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Just don't feed the troll.

[asphaltpussy 0]

Sorry guys,

where i am right now, internet is rare.

So, he phoned back home and it's a Stiletto 107. Not a Velocity.

And since i'm not a PD jumper, i wasn't sure if the Vel was made in 107 in some previous series.

So anyway. No troll, and no Vel, but still a 107 at 80 kilos weight with 200 jumps.

Pretty high WL. Just want ed to show him, that's not common at all.

Sorry for the confusion.

R&D Firebird USA
Skyventure Arizona Instructor
Eloy, AZ

[JohnRich 4]

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no Vel, but still a 107 at 80 kilos weight with 200 jumps.

Well, we finally have a number. 80 kilos is 176 lbs., for a wing loading of 1.6. With 200 jumps. Beware!

[humanflite 0]

and on a stilletto as well sounds like a sure recipe for the fracture clinic in the near future (at best)

[phoenixlpr 0]

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and on a stilletto as well sounds like a sure recipe for the fracture clinic in the near future (at best)

So? You can hurt yourself with anything...

[nerd137 0]

Quote

Hi guys,

i just met some austrian nice guy. After a few minutes he told me he was a skydiver too.
But then the story became funny.

I'll keep it short.

He got about 200 jumps and bought a velocity 107.
He started jumping it with 180 jumps.
He bought it because it was cheap.

So please tell me what ya think.
Trying to explain him that it's fucking dangerous.
Nobofy ever told him that before. Not even when he went to a major spanish dz.

Feedback needed now.

So lemme get this straight...

You started a thread to get feedback for an acquaintance who you already informed is making an unwise canopy choice?

What was the point? Were you just unsure whether his canopy selection was, indeed, an unwise choice?

Low Jump Numbers + High WL = Unwise Choice

[DARK 0]

Quote

Quote

Hi guys,

i just met some austrian nice guy. After a few minutes he told me he was a skydiver too.
But then the story became funny.

I'll keep it short.

He got about 200 jumps and bought a velocity 107.
He started jumping it with 180 jumps.
He bought it because it was cheap.

So please tell me what ya think.
Trying to explain him that it's fucking dangerous.
Nobofy ever told him that before. Not even when he went to a major spanish dz.

Feedback needed now.

So lemme get this straight...

You started a thread to get feedback for an acquaintance who you already informed is making an unwise canopy choice?

What was the point? Were you just unsure whether his canopy selection was, indeed, an unwise choice?

Low Jump Numbers + High WL = Unwise Choice

maybe he thought a page full of posts agreeing with him that it was a bad idea would show the aquaintance that he is not just being a stick in the mud and maybe that would stop the aquaintance seriously hurting himself?

sounds reasonable to me

[billvon 2,995]

>maybe he thought a page full of posts agreeing with him that it was a
>bad idea would show the aquaintance that he is not just being a stick in the
>mud and maybe that would stop the aquaintance seriously hurting himself?

1) It's been tried dozens of times. Usually doesn't work. People are going to do what they want no matter what people say. Heck, just reading one of the other 250 threads on this very topic _should_ be enough, but everyone thinks they're the exception.

2) People are fond of doing just that to get a rise out of people, and people get burned out on that after a while.

I used to hope that people like this made it through their transition without a scratch, and learned the folly of their decision before it came back to bite them. Unfortunately, experience has shown that our hopes and our advice don't have much of an effect.

Nowadays if they are determined to hurt themselves I hope for a broken femur - because lesser injuries than that are often not enough to teach people caution, femurs heal well, and often the alternatives are much, much worse.

[nerd137 0]

> People are going to do what they want no matter what people say.

I think that's true at least 98% of the time. But I do know one person who backed away from a high(er) performance canopy because enough people told him it probably wasn't a good idea.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

Hi guys,

i just met some austrian nice guy. After a few minutes he told me he was a skydiver too.
But then the story became funny.

I'll keep it short.

He got about 200 jumps and bought a velocity 107.
He started jumping it with 180 jumps.
He bought it because it was cheap.

So please tell me what ya think.
Trying to explain him that it's fucking dangerous.
Nobofy ever told him that before. Not even when he went to a major spanish dz.

Feedback needed now.

Tell him that you have taken out a life insurance policy in his name.

[skybytch 273]

Quote

Nowadays if they are determined to hurt themselves I hope for a broken femur - because lesser injuries than that are often not enough to teach people caution, femurs heal well, and often the alternatives are much, much worse.

I don't really care if or how they hurt themselves anymore. Nowadays I'm far more concerned about them hurting me or one of my friends.

[Waldschrat 0]

Buy 300ft² Falcon and go out last ;)

[asphaltpussy 0]

Thanks guys. I just wanted him to show that he might reconsider his choice.
He now thinks about putting his 135 back on, which is still kinda small.

But anyway, thanks.

Mods, you can close the thread if you want. Thanks.

R&D Firebird USA
Skyventure Arizona Instructor
Eloy, AZ

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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and on a stilletto as well sounds like a sure recipe for the fracture clinic in the near future (at best)

So? You can hurt yourself with anything...

Newer PD designs are all intentionally detuned to be less sensitive to control input because John LeBlanc observed jumpers having problems on landing with roll axis stability under Stilettos.

Most other designs feel like driving your father's Oldsmobile compared to a Stiletto of the same size or even larger.

It's way easier to unintentionally over-control a Stiletto. With just 600 jumps under my belt when I switched from a Batwing 134 to a Stiletto 120 at 1.6-1.7 pounds per square foot the thing didn't always go in a straight line on landing.

After turning too low one time I gave it too much input, popped back up to a high altitude, and bruised my heels bad enough that it hurt to walk for months (obviously, this beat needing to see the orthopaedic surgeon which lots of my friends did).

All pilot error, all with three times 200 jumps experience, all on a 120 that's less sensitive to control input than a 107.

Then there's the Stiletto recovery arc. If you don't have an interactive approach where you maintain roll angle and adjust turn rate/steepness as you go you're a lot more likely to turn low and dig out than you would be with a modern canopy where you can turn high and let the canopy descend to a good planeout altitude. The simple Stiletto approach is more likely to lead to situations where you don't dig out or stall the canopy.

[chuckbrown 0]

I don't know what PD's policy is now, but there was a time when they wouldn't sell a Stiletto to someone with under 600 jumps. I know of someone who got around that policy by buying one on the used market when he had around 400 jumps. He promptly screwed up an off DZ landing and killed himself. He might have died under a more docile canopy, but flying the Stiletto didn't help him.

I hope you friend survives the learning curve intact.

[Baksteen 84]

600 jumps?

The Dutch requirements for flying a stiletto is 400. Since these requirements are perceived by a number of veterans as extremely strict, I cannot imagine that the Royal Dutch Aeronautical Assosication would allow something that a manufacturer wouldn't.

To the OP, just ask your friend how his last jump went, wether he is sure that his insurance covers skydiving and whether he has sorted out his will.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[jloirsdaan 0]

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I hope for a broken femur

That's what finally taught me.

Jordan

Go Fast, Dock Soft.