PhreeZone 20 #1 July 11, 2007 If a person with a Wings wants to replace their risers with new ones from Velocity Sports would that you allow that? Take it to the next stage, if someone wanted to replace their pilot chute on a Javelin with one from a Racer would that be acceptible? How far would you allow non-original equipment to be installed?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #2 July 11, 2007 If it is on the main then you can put what ever the fuck you want on it. I have home build 2:1 risers on the lightning that I jump that has a mirage bag on it and I'm putting it in an infinity. I have the infinity risers on my 90 that I put in my Jav, and the jav risers on my 96 that I sometimes put in my infinity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #3 July 11, 2007 One question. Why not? I'd have no issue using main risers, pilot chutes, d-bags from other manufacturers if I deemed them airworthy in proper function and fit. Keep in mind I also modify OEM parts if I feel the function or fit is not correct or could be better. I don't mess with reserve components.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #4 July 12, 2007 As long as it is for the main sytem I definitly would...The only problem with risers is RSL rig location so that needs to be taken into consideration and pilot chutes , as long as it's the correct size it make no difference who made it, most main pilot chutes were not made by the rig manufacturer anyway. Now reserve compents are a totally different story because of the TSO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #5 July 12, 2007 Here is a follow up question, would this be considered an alteration and would you need to ask the manufactor prior to installing the components? I'm of the mind that the main does not need any approval but I recently heard a different opinion so I'm seeking out the entire communities opinion to see if there is something I'm missing or if anyone can replace their parts with anything they want to.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #6 July 12, 2007 No....as long as it's not affecting the TSO then there is no need to get manufacturer or FAA permission. The harness, reserve container, Reserve handle, RLS lanyard, ect. are manufacturer specific, but the main risers(as long as they are compatible with the RSL), main d-bag, pilot chute ect. are not and are interchangable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #7 July 12, 2007 I see no problems with it, I have risers from a javalin, d bag also from a javalin, kill line pilot chute from a .... shit ...javalin I jump a reflex.... If it fits, why not? *(edit to add.... why didnt I just buy a javalin)*....lol Roy They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #8 July 12, 2007 Quote One question. Why not? I'd have no issue using main risers, pilot chutes, d-bags from other manufacturers if I deemed them airworthy in proper function and fit. What about the PdF riser issue that caused a girl to bounce a couple of years ago in Australia? That was just a main riser replacement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #9 July 12, 2007 Quote Here is a follow up question, would this be considered an alteration and would you need to ask the manufactor prior to installing the components? The FAA's definition of an alteration is any change from the original manufactured configuration. That includes both certified and non-certified components. With that, as long as they are the same size, length, type, and have the same options, it would not be an alteration. Any changes of the above would be considered an alteration. The three ring system itself IS listed with the TSO as the required release system. I believe the break for approval lies here. For example, the Icon H/C comes with the Mini-Force type rings. By using something different, like a standard 3 ring system, would require approval. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #10 July 12, 2007 I have RWS risers on my PD main, Javelin rig with a PC from ??? All done under the supervision of a master rigger, but he didn't see the need to sign off on anything except the RSL change.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #11 July 12, 2007 Mel, say a rig came into your loft with some non-certified part altered. For example, Infinity risers on an Icon, or an aftermarket pilot chute. Would you refuse to work on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #12 July 12, 2007 Quote the Icon H/C comes with the Mini-Force type rings. But it also comes with standard rings as an option.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #13 July 12, 2007 Quote Quote One question. Why not? I'd have no issue using main risers, pilot chutes, d-bags from other manufacturers if I deemed them airworthy in proper function and fit. What about the PdF riser issue that caused a girl to bounce a couple of years ago in Australia? That was just a main riser replacement. Read this part: "i'd have no issue using main risers, pilot chutes, d-bags from other manufacturers if I deemed them airworthy in proper function and fit. I would not use those type of risers for the reason shown in bold.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blackj 0 #14 July 13, 2007 You do need to be careful. There was a fatality a while back when a woman in australia had Parachute De France risers on a Javelin container. When she had a pilot chute in toe and because the rings as attached further down on a Javelin the risers didn't release when she cut away. In general you can swap riser but in the case of reverse risers on a javelin and a pilot chute in toe its not good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #15 July 13, 2007 Quote the Icon H/C comes with the Mini-Force type rings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But it also comes with standard rings as an option One would then have to think in reverse! It would then still be a change from the original configuration. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldschrat 0 #16 July 13, 2007 Yes done this week with PC, but with risers is the thing a little bit more complex, here in germany because she are part of gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #17 July 13, 2007 Personally... I wouldn't do it. Simply, for the fact of 'warnings' about original equipment mentioned in owner's manuals and legal issues and etc. That's just me. I would get approval from the harness-container manufacturer first, before I inspect and re-pack a rig with non-original parts. If, I get a rig without the main in it... how do I know? I'll pack it. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #18 July 15, 2007 I have a set of Mirage risers on my Javelin. they came with my Pilot canopy and had hard covers for the excess 3 Ring cable, which my original Jav risers didn't have. That and the Jav risers were starting to look a little beat, to me anyway. I've had no problems. And again, I did nothing to alter the basic harness, reserve, reserve riser, or RSL configuration, so there's no TSO issues involved. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #19 July 15, 2007 Quote Mel, say a rig came into your loft with some non-certified part altered. For example, Infinity risers on an Icon, or an aftermarket pilot chute. Would you refuse to work on it? No, I would not unless I changed it back to an acceptable or legal mode. Here's a good one... Top Rings... In case you do not know what this is, it is a extra guide ring on the rear riser. Some people, not riggers mind you, are adding a ring onto the rear riser slink. This allows the toggle to be positioned up further after the brakes are unstowed. The problem is two fold: 1. It is an alteration not usually completed by a master rigger. 2.The installation is causing wear to the slink/suspension lines in most cases. I hate to say it but, this probably will result in an incident in the near future. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 July 16, 2007 Quote The problem is two fold: 1. It is an alteration not usually completed by a master rigger. According to the FARs, as long as they DON'T have a rigging ticket, they can perform such a mod on their own gear. Quote 2.The installation is causing wear to the slink/suspension lines in most cases. AH, but if instead they use a properly designed system for the same, then there is no wear point created.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #21 July 16, 2007 Quote AH, but if instead they use a properly designed system for the same, then there is no wear point created. As an aside, what constitutes a properly made system and who's making them? Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #22 July 16, 2007 Quote According to the FARs, as long as they DON'T have a rigging ticket, they can perform such a mod on their own gear. JP, The long debate again...... The FAA is aware of the mis-wording in 65.111 and is moving on the matter. Terry Urban(PIA Chairman) can comfirm this for you. Rest assured that modifications and alterations can only be done by a Master Rigger. That's mains and certificated canopies and H/C. I just gave a Senior's test with the FAA watching and that subject came up and was discussed. End of thread drift....... Quote AH, but if instead they use a properly designed system for the same, then there is no wear point created. You got it! Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #23 July 16, 2007 I frequently substitute main components, but rarely substitute reserve components. Let's face it, most main risers, d-bags, and pilot chutes are similar these days. As long as the RSL ring is on the correct side, and dimensions are close, substitutions are no big deal. However, reserve components raise some complex compatibility questions ... best left to a Master Rigger. For example, I might install a Javelin pilot chute in a Dolphin, but that is about the limit. Hint: Javelin and Dolphin were designed by the same guy: Mike Furry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 July 16, 2007 VSE made one at request for me, I'm still testing it to see if I see any benifit from it, but so far it works well.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #25 July 17, 2007 Awesome, thanks JP. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
