Group Members and Doing Tandems

[matthewcline 0]

7. Instruction of foreign students [E]
a. Foreign non-resident instructional rating holders appropriately and currently rated by their national aero club may train students from that nation in the U.S., provided the instruction is conducted in accordance with the USPA Basic Safety Requirements.


I think it is clear the T-I is to work with students from thier country

Look at what the BSRs and GM program say for foreign GM DZs -

Here is a quote from the winter 2009 USPA Minutes:

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The next item discussed was foreign Group Member drop zones. Director of Safety and Training
Jim Crouch expressed concern regarding the ability, and in some cases, willingness, of foreignbased
Group Member drop zones to comply with the Group Member Pledge, particularly as
related to use of USPA rating holders and compliance with FAA rules. After some discussion,
the committee decided to not take action at this time and asked the director to make an additional
effort to emphasize the requirements to foreign group member. The committee will reconsider
this issue at the summer 2009 meeting.

USPA is trying for domination of the global skydiving market.
USPA is trying to get other nations to abide by US regulations stated in the FARs.
Heck, even the FAA does not require that.

It is a very strange situation for foreign GM DZs.
They are required to make all licensed customers & instructors have a USPA membership.
Apparently that is not happening.
Non-USPA members, tandem rated by their home country, can come to the US and do tandem jumps at more places than a USPA member with a mfg tandem rating can.

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I see no issue with the theory that if your not a current member you license is not current.

It is not a theory.

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3-1.B. General conditions for licenses
1. USPA licenses are valid only while the holder is a current regular USPA member; there is no other renewal requirement.

OK bad choice of word, I chose it since earlier some one said "in theory".

And one more quote from the SIM

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Tandem jumping
A method of skydiving, typically used for training student skydivers or introducing newcomers to the sport, where one jumper shares a tandem parachute system with another.

From common interpretation, the phrase 'training student skydivers' means teaching TLOs from the ISP and the phrase 'introducing newcomers to the sport' means carnival ride. The 'teaching' that goes into proper exit positions, EPs etc fall into the instruction stated in FAR 105.45.

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[loudtom 5]

Thanks you two. After reviewing what you say, the dz in question is probably doing nothing wrong.
I am glad that is what it looks like.
It does look like foriegn rated instructors can only train people from thier country.
If not Jan is right. *************Why would the Board not want to make foreign dz's that are gm's adhere to the same rules they make the dz's in our own country adhere too???????????????
That is discrimination isn't it? I see that the instructors would have to be USPA rated but so what.
They are USPA GM's. I know Jan a whole nother can 'o worms...
thanks for all the intelligent convo.
tom

tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-)

[billvon 2,995]

>Why would the Board not want to make foreign dz's that are gm's adhere
>to the same rules they make the dz's in our own country adhere too?

Because here in the US we base our rules on the FAA. (Cloud clearances for example.) Other countries don't heed the FAA.

[riggerrob 643]

USAP is a bit hypocritical when it comes to foreign DZs that are USPA Group Member DZs.
After submitting one pile of paperwork, there is no further inspection by USPA officials.

For example. I have worked at several Canadian DZs that are USPA Group Member DZs. I used to hold USPA Static-Line and IAD Instructor ratings, but have not paid my USPA membership in a decade, so all those ratings have lapsed.
Hint: I hold more ratings than any other instructor at this DZ.
On the other hand, my CSPA Instructor B, IAD and PFF ratings are all current and I mainly teach Canadian citizens.
When (rare) American students show up. they get trained to CSPA standards.
Remember that differences between USPA and CSPA training methods are tiny.

In the long run, USPA Group Membership becomes a mere marketing ploy for foreign Group Member DZs. In the long run, Group Member benefits are limited to listing in the back of Parachutist Magazine.

[NWFlyer 2]

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USAP is a bit hypocritical when it comes to foreign DZs that are USPA Group Member DZs.
After submitting one pile of paperwork, there is no further inspection by USPA officials.

Quote

In the long run, USPA Group Membership becomes a mere marketing ploy for foreign Group Member DZs. In the long run, Group Member benefits are limited to listing in the back of Parachutist Magazine.

And that's different from US-based USPA group member DZs how?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 2,995]

>After submitting one pile of paperwork, there is no further inspection by
>USPA officials.

So in other words it's like most US DZ's.

>I used to hold USPA Static-Line and IAD Instructor ratings, but have not
>paid my USPA membership in a decade, so all those ratings have lapsed.

So? You're following the requirements of your country and skydiving organization. As long as you don't advertise yourself as a USPA-compliant DZ I don't see a big issue.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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>After submitting one pile of paperwork, there is no further inspection by
>USPA officials.

So in other words it's like most US DZ's.

>I used to hold USPA Static-Line and IAD Instructor ratings, but have not
>paid my USPA membership in a decade, so all those ratings have lapsed.

So? You're following the requirements of your country and skydiving organization. As long as you don't advertise yourself as a USPA-compliant DZ I don't see a big issue.

The point is they do advertise themselves as a USPA DZ.