Preventing liner over when cocooning?

[WingFlyer 0]

Hey there.
I'm always worried that I'm rolling the steering lines around to the nose of the canopy after the canopy is on the ground in a triangle and I'm making it the width of the D-bag. I've been taught to be careful not to roll them around, but I can't see them so how do I know...

When I dissect my pack job, I see the steering lines have moved out more to the sides. They have not wrapped around, but I don't know how far to the side is bad.

I do not fold the stabilizers into the middle of the pack jobs in laps. I read about that here and that sounds like it might help contain the lines.

It just seems like this rolling the tail around the back to get the cocoon shape thats the width of the dbag is risky business. The Wolmari pack looks like it avoids the risks here, but I'm not willing to try something like that which I haven't been taught at the DZ..at least not yet. I would want to clear this with folks at the DZ first.

[Derekbox 0]

Just cram it in the bag and jump it.

No really.

[2shay 0]

if you pro pack, after you have flaked a b c and d lines, simply find your steering lines and pull them carefully to the center. When cocooning take and put your knee so that no lines come around when you are bringing the tail around to wrap the tail. When you are rolling the excess tail do not roll and roll too much because that can cause your brake lines to come around as well. Simple phrase to remember is lines in the center and material to the outside. You will find the more experience you get and the better you know your canopy the less there is to packing then what you may have thought. I would have a rigger just watch you pack and tell you what is necessary and what is a waste of time.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[Tonto 1]

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When cocooning

Seriously, is this a generally accepted skydiving term?

I think 99% of the stuff I see in today's packjobs is nothing but voodoo bullshit. I've said this before. It's like dogs walking in circles before they lie down. They don't know why they do it, but it makes them feel better.

The (milli)second the air hits that canopy when it comes out the bag, all that carefull mumbo jumbo voodoo stuff means nothing. Keep the slider at the top, clear lines and stow the lines with even tension once it's in the bag. I've packed everything like shit for 20+ years. My packing is scary to watch, and I'm really, really bad at it - and yet the canopy opens properly most of the time. When it hasn't, it's been cos of something broken, or it wasn't my packjob.

Some people I see who can pack these days cannot untangle a canopy. They can usually tell something is wrong - but they have no idea how to fix it. That's where a chunk of their practice should go, I think, but then I'm (relatively) old and grumpy.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[lekstrom10k 0]

When I am done flaking both sides and have the center of the tail in my right hand at the slider under my thumb. Then I will stick my left under the tail and circle the lines and draw down to the "C" attachments. This will usually keep any wandering lines back together.I then wrap the tail and throw down the canopy for cocooning. Its worked since 1973 so it cant be to bad. Anyone buying a new canopy never get a see-thru center cell color.I jumped a PD Spectre like that . I wouldnt reflake my canopy ever but this one you could see how bad the lines went. I agree with the comments above this.I dont believe in reduntant antics of some jumpers.Maybe they were just stalling so they wouldnt have to jump again that day. I saw this alot at NEW RIVER BRIDGE DAY

[pwln 0]

Put the lines in the middle, quarter the slider, wad it up and shove it in the bag.

Don't forget to set your brakes.

If it hurts, roll the nose a little the next time.

The only time that packing really matters (I think) is with really small canopies, BASE, and reserves.

[2shay 0]

I pack in five minutes man so I know what you are talking about, but the person is new, I am not going to give them the same advice I would give an experienced person for packing their speed will come, some quicker than others but it will.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[Tonto 1]

Agreed on all points.
t

It's the year of the Pig.

[JohnRich 4]

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It's like dogs walking in circles before they lie down. They don't know why they do it, but it makes them feel better.

That's an ancient instinct to mat down the grass to make a bed, and to survey the area for predators. It's so deep in their genes, that they continue to do it today, even in the comfort of a family living room.

[seal_S49 0]

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When cocooning

Seriously, is this a generally accepted skydiving term?

I, for one, understand exactly what the OP means. I've heard this term often & even used it myself. Coincidentally, real cocoons are made of silk, just like parachutes were at one time.

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I think 99% of the stuff I see in today's packjobs is nothing but voodoo bullshit.

Well OK, maybe there is some of that, but keeping the lines in the center of a pack-job is a basic principal of packing both round and square canopies. After seeing line-over malfunctions on DZ gear, after repairing burned lines/fabric on many canopies, and after listening to lectures from "qualified" staff packers who don't know how many D-lines there are on a 9-cell, I'm just glad that someone is taking in interest.

I think this thread covered the topic well enough that I don't need to add anything, but I'm glad the question was raised.

[WingFlyer 0]

Thanks for all the responses. I'll push my luck and ask two follow ups:

1. Does folding stabilizers in towards the center of the canopy overlapping each other help keep the lines in the center when cocooning or is this voodoo stuff?

2. How far around can a steering line wrap before theres a lineover? I'm asking because when lifting the tail up after cocooning to dissect a pack job, I see the steering line ends (attachment points) moved to the side of the canopy, but the lines are still in the middle of the canopy at the warning label. Would a line over only happen if the lines wrapped around lower down near the label?

[Tonto 1]

My answers to

1. keep the stabilisers clear of the lines. This is usually done by flaking them.

2. You'd have to go pretty far, but you'll end up with burns and off headings long before you get to a line over.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[seal_S49 0]

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2. How far around can a steering line wrap before theres a lineover?

That exact information is hard to obtain; we're still waiting for someone to volunteer to pack different degrees of trash and then test-jump for line-overs. That job is still vacant if you're interested.

We've heard some good comments on how to keep the lines organized during and after flaking, but we're all bound to lose some of that neatness when we wrap the tail. If you've done a good job up until that point and don't over-roll the tail or beat-up the cocoon too badly, the lines are only gonna fan out a little bit near their attachment points. Modern main canopies are pretty forgiving about opening nicely in spite of that.

[billvon 3,058]

> How far around can a steering line wrap before theres a lineover?

Basically if it gets in front of the nose, odds of a lineover go up. What I do is that after I flake I take all the C/D/brake lines in one hand, put the tail over them with the other, then grab the C/D/brake lines through the tail as I stuff the nose, spread the slider and roll the tail. That way they are under control until I put the packjob down.

[WingFlyer 0]

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My answers to

1. keep the stabilisers clear of the lines. This is usually done by flaking them.
t

So this whole lap the stabilizers into the middle after you've flaked them business doesn't work to help keep lines in the center when you've got the cocoon down on the ground and making the cigar shape from the triangle?

[jheadley 0]

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My answers to

1. keep the stabilisers clear of the lines. This is usually done by flaking them.
t

So this whole lap the stabilizers into the middle after you've flaked them business doesn't work to help keep lines in the center when you've got the cocoon down on the ground and making the cigar shape from the triangle?

I think it may help some. That's how I was taught and I've done it for 2500+ pack jobs with no lineovers. Of course, there are plenty others out there who don't do it and they don't have lineovers either. In fact some even say that it increases the chance of a lineover. Everyone's got a different opinion of what works.

[JustChuteMeNow 0]

Hey Wingflyer,

I agree with some of the other posters who said it really doesn't f***ing matter because the canopy wants to open. It really does. However, if you really want to keep the lines in the center you can feel the lines with your hand in the bottom 2/3 of the canopy. Lift the lines with one hand by poking your fingers into the fabric and curling the lines under with one hand. Tuck the canopy under the lines with the other hand. For the right side of the canopy use your left hand to lift the lines. The top 1/3 of the canopy doesn't have any lines and so move that material any way you like.

Hopefully this explanation makes sense and if it doesn't pm me and I will try and make it clearer.

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that.

[peek 21]

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I'm always worried that I'm rolling the steering lines around to the nose of the canopy after the canopy is on the ground in a triangle...

When I dissect my pack job, I see the steering lines have moved out more to the sides.

It just seems like this rolling the tail around the back to get the cocoon shape thats the width of the deployment bag is risky business.

It's always heartening to find a never jumper that thinks about these things instead of just following what they are told about packing.

You are correct, the lines do move during all that tail rolling. If you want to learn something and have some time, try laying the canopy down without all that tail rolling and watch where the lines go. You can move them to the center and then hold them there while you do the cocooning with the tail.

Perhaps not practical if you want to pack quickly, but you will know exactly where your lines are.

If you locate some packing instructions for reserves that are flaked while standing, you will see how this is done. (The PD document I believe says "Pro Pack", but it is much more careful than that.) Jump Shack specified this method for the Racer reserve many years ago, and Flight Concepts reserve packing instructions show method now.

[stayhigh 2]

i used to take long time to pack, until someone made me relieze that, canopy will unroll out of the d-bag @ 100+ mph, will catch the air at 100+ mph..
Do you really think that fold/flaking and line will stay neat and perfect thru out the deployment sequence??

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[phoenixlpr 0]

Take it simple! Skydiving and packing is a religion. At lest you need faith.

[WingFlyer 0]

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Do you really think that fold/flaking and line will stay neat and perfect thru out the deployment sequence??

No, but straight lines in the middle with fabric outside, slider up top,steering lines in the back etc. make a big difference in my newbie mind.
It's also pretty evident to me that a stray steering line leaning too far back near the nose can cause a linover if the fabric gets under there and inflaters when that 100mph wad of stuff hits air.

[2shay 0]

nice and clean may open better than a trash pack but maybe not. If it gives you peace of mind then do that, you will find in time with the way you pack and the way your canopy reacts, on what to eleminate and what not to in your packing methods. The SOB will open more or less no matter what, it is all personal preference: peace of mind, way it opens, canopy wear, line wear. The rigger who taught me said the only reason that you flake all your lines mostly is because of wear on the canopy because mostly what you do to it does not matter if it will open. I have seen guys who pack perfect have nasty mals, and have seen many myself included pack fast and not even that clean and not have any mals. all what makes you comfy thats all.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[chuckbrown 0]

Here's a tip:

Put a rubber band on the innermost brake line (left or right side, it doesn't matter) right where the line attaches to the tail of the canopy. Then take all the brake lines in a bight and put a wrap of the rubber band around them. Then continue to pack as normal; the brake lines aren't going anywhere & you can worry about something other than a line-over. This is similar (in concept) to a tail-gate on a base rig.

[udder 0]

or you can do the opposite - fold the ears over the top, thereby clearing the nose of lines. Wolmari packing.

"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E

[Broke 0]

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2. How far around can a steering line wrap before theres a lineover?

That exact information is hard to obtain; we're still waiting for someone to volunteer to pack different degrees of trash and then test-jump for line-overs. That job is still vacant if you're interested.

We've heard some good comments on how to keep the lines organized during and after flaking, but we're all bound to lose some of that neatness when we wrap the tail. If you've done a good job up until that point and don't over-roll the tail or beat-up the cocoon too badly, the lines are only gonna fan out a little bit near their attachment points. Modern main canopies are pretty forgiving about opening nicely in spite of that.

OH OH OH I packed myself a line over.
Of course my canopy has a dacron line set as well. Basically long of the short of it I had the steering line comeing one cell just off center. Probably between the center cell and the next cell over.
Just make sure you don't wrap your steering lines around to the nose of the canopy and you'll be allright.

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