hackish 8 #1 September 18, 2007 I understand that PD recommends a camera type packjob on the sabre 210. The last pack I did was like this and it was a very nice soft opening. The downside is that it took a scary long time to inflate. I'm in the habit of watching the deployment and there didn't seem to be any trouble with the PC. It is fairly new and didn't seem to have any trouble pulling the bag up and open. From there that square mess of flapping stuff seemed to just sit there for a long time before the slider started to descend. Next jump the packer did and not knowing about the recommended rolling of the inner and outer 4 cells he packed it normally. It did not seem to make a difference but it did open with some linetwists. It was a stable toss so maybe it was just unrelated bad luck. Can anyone make a suggestion as to how this thing can open a little quicker without having a banger? I am deploying stable at terminal. I usually pull at 4k and it's open at 2800 to 3k. The canopy is a relatively new rental unit and the nylon seems to be fairly close to a new zp canopy while packing. Maybe this is just par for the course? I'm just a little concerned if I do a H&P at 3k. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #2 September 18, 2007 Define... "it took a scary long time to inflate" ??? When you say..."the recommended rolling of the inner and outer 4 cells"... I'm guessing you mean this is a "legacy" Sabre and not a Sabre-2. When asking about packing an original Sabre, most folks are concerned about getting it to open slower & not faster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #3 September 18, 2007 Wow, a problem I've never encountered before. Must be a one in a thousand canopy. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #4 September 18, 2007 Quote I'm in the habit of watching the deployment and there didn't seem to be any trouble with the PC. It is fairly new and didn't seem to have any trouble pulling the bag up and open. From there that square mess of flapping stuff seemed to just sit there for a long time before the slider started to descend. Don't do this, it is a dangerous habit to get into. Yes you need to confirm that the canopy has opened properly but if you spend the entire opening looking up you won't see the canopy collision you are just about to have."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #5 September 18, 2007 I had the same issues when I packed the new to me S170. I was told of the slammer rep the Sabre1 had, so I "4-4" rolled the nose tight to the center, shoved the nose waaaaaay in, made sure the slider was quartered and rolled the tail tight. I didn't like how slow it opened. So one by one, did less of the listed steps. Started by rolling the nose cells less. Then not rolling but tucking the 4 cells next to the center cell. Openings were faster, just as soft, but a little off heading. After playing with it, now I just grab all the nose & give it a light tuck and quarter the slider and pull out out so it covers the nose. Roll the tail just enough to keep the canopy contained as I get the air out. It opens mostly on heading, quick but not hard. I tend to like the "brisk" opening. It has never slammed me. I use it as my WS canopy because it is well behaved. YMMV.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #6 September 18, 2007 I am fairly certain it is not a sabre2 - it's the one with the twin steering/brake lines (which I find a little more challenging to deal with). A scary long time to deflate was me watching it in that square configuration for a bit. Then going "Here slider slider slider.... come on boy... you can do it..." Finally the slider came down. Maybe I should just stop talking to it or someone will want to throw me in the funny farm. :) -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #7 September 18, 2007 I talk to my canopy too sometimes during / just after opening... but it usually involves 4-Letter Words... Anyway, any idea how long, in terms of altitude, it took to open? Generally speaking, original Sabres (and "yes" its an original if its a Sabre 210 with double steering lines) are not known to be "snivel-ly" canopies... however... their rep as being "wack jobs" is also somewhat unwarranted too, IMO, but that's a different topic. Anyway, if its not taking like 1000 feet to open, I'd suggest not altering your packing technique too radically, but just putting somemore jumps on it. You may want to try not rolling the nose in so much, but, again, don't make big changes based on just a handful of pack-jobs / jumps, again, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #8 September 19, 2007 I'm not absolutely certain on the amount of time it took to open each time. Once was 1200' I'm about 80% certain about that. At about 5k I waved off, tracked away (not that I can track that well yet), then checked the altimeter, checked the airspace again and deployed. Was open by 2800. Fairly sure I tossed at or about 4000. If the weather is good this weekend I'll pay more attention... People are already calling me the airplane whore 'cause I got 5 jumps in last weekend (there was only one TM). -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #9 September 19, 2007 Quote Don't do this, it is a dangerous habit to get into. Yes you need to confirm that the canopy has opened properly but if you spend the entire opening looking up you won't see the canopy collision you are just about to have. If you have a CC while riding thru the snivel of your opening, then you fucked up before you tossed the PC by not clearing your airspace first! To the OP, take the slider off and see how fast the canopy opens, you'll learn real fast to like the slow ones.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #10 September 19, 2007 Haha. How about getting a 1/2 mesh one from a base rig? Let's not and say we did :P -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #11 September 19, 2007 Quote Haha. How about getting a 1/2 mesh one from a base rig? Let's not and say we did :P -Michael How about learn how to pack for slow or faster openings? I would not mess with BASE equipment if I were you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #12 September 19, 2007 I'm sure the post about removing the slider and mine were both jokes. Learning the details of what can be done to speed and slow openings is the exact point of this thread even though not many details have been offered yet. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #13 September 19, 2007 To the OP: roll the nose 2 turns on each side instead of 4. I have a sabre1 190 that also sometimes takes a while to open and that helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #14 September 19, 2007 Quote I'm sure the post about removing the slider and mine were both jokes. Learning the details of what can be done to speed and slow openings is the exact point of this thread even though not many details have been offered yet. -Michael If you place the slider more over the nose, it opens slower, if you place it even, it might open faster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #15 September 19, 2007 Quote At about 5k I waved off, tracked away (not that I can track that well yet), then checked the altimeter, checked the airspace again and deployed. Was open by 2800. Fairly sure I tossed at or about 4000. Ummm... I hate to nit-pick... but... Usually folks track and THEN wave off before tossing their pilot chute... not wave off and track away. Maybe you just typed it backwards, sorry then. If you really did start your track at 5K... tracked for really 5 seconds... checked altitude (say 1 - 2 seconds)... and checked airspace again (say another 1 - 2 seconds)... do the math, there's no way you pitched at 4K, unless you were in a wingsuit. What am I getting at? I've been down this road with folks before... myself too ... where someone gets called out for pulling low and what do they usually say? Something like, "I checked altitude when I pulled and my altimeter said ABCD, so that's when was open" comes out their mouth. Bull! Not enless you already had your pilot chute out and in your hand and just let go of it. If you check altitude then wave & pull, figure that's another 1 - 2 seconds (at least) and at 200 ft/s that means your pilot chute was coming out about 200 - 400 ft lower then that altitude... add to that a snivel and you get my picture. Not a big deal if ABCD = 4000 ft... kind of a concern if ABCD = 2000 ft or lower. Again, IMO, I'd not recommend making radical packing changes based on a few openings. Also again, IMO, the original Sabre's rep as a hard opening canopy is somewhat unwarranted, but all canopies can give you a rouge opening from time to time that will make you see stars and later be laying on the couch drinking copious amounts of beer with a heating pad on your lower back trying to dull the pain... this can happen based on poor packing. Talk to the experienced folks, riggers and jumpmasters at your DZ about what's going on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #16 September 19, 2007 Yeah, sorry I backwards wrote it. I'm trying to base my numbers off the altitrack. That gives me the opening altitude but it's difficult to tell exactly what altitude the PC was pitched at. I'll try to watch that a little closer. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #17 September 19, 2007 Quote Once was 1200' I'm about 80% certain about that Do the math. At terminal velocity, how long would it take to go through 1200 feet.? Now, count to 7 seconds. This is how long it would take IF you were going at 120mph during the entire opening. Thats not an opening, its a streamer.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #18 September 19, 2007 Quote I'm sure the post about removing the slider and mine were both jokes. See, your not as dumb as you look..... LOLyou can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #19 September 19, 2007 Just my opinion but you should be happy you are getting a 1200 foot snivel with a Sabre. You must be doing something right when you are packing it. I had to learn to pack mine to get it to snivel, and I'm lucky if I get a 800 foot opening on my 190. I can tell you from experience a 100 foot opening sucks ... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #20 September 19, 2007 Quote ... I'm trying to base my numbers off the altitrack. That gives me the opening altitude ... Doh! I forgot that you young-in's have an affinity to have all those new fangled gizzmo's that tell you how fast the airplane is climbing, what altitude you got out at, how fast you fell in freefall, how long you were in freefall, when you opened, how many points you turned, where to adjust the spot to on the next load, plays music and packs your parachute for you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #21 September 19, 2007 Quote ... Just my opinion but you should be happy you are getting a 1200 foot snivel with a Sabre... Ummm... maybe its just me, but a 1200 foot opening is a bit more that a snivel... its more like a streamer that cleared... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflychris 0 #22 September 19, 2007 Pack it slider down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #23 September 19, 2007 Et all... can I get $20 on freeflychris? Quote Pack it slider down. Can I watch you dump, at terminal, a Sabre (or other modern ram-air conopy of your choice) packed slider down? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #24 September 20, 2007 That may be ZigZagM, but I will take that over a 100 or 200 foot opening anyday Have you ever jumped a Spectre? I have been told by several vidiots that they routinely take up to a grand to open, sometimes more... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #25 September 20, 2007 Quote I understand that PD recommends a camera type packjob on the sabre 210. The last pack I did was like this and it was a very nice soft opening. The downside is that it took a scary long time to inflate. Can anyone make a suggestion as to how this thing can open a little quicker without having a banger? You can roll the tail without rolling the nose and see how that works. It could also be the equipment. Take a look at the steering lines. If they've shrunk enough to deflect the tail in full-flight your openings will be affected. If you have a separate line from the cat-eye to the brake toggle, it may have been replaced to fix this problem without correcting the brake setting. Definately download the trim sheet from PD and see what's up. Check the slider for a pocket that's been sewn on - some people do this. Measure the slider dimensions and ask PD what the stock size is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
