Gear Quality

[frazeebd 0]

Good afternoon everyone!
I've been skydiving for a couple weeks now, just finished the AFF course at Skydive Elsinore here in California, and now I'm on solo student status working on my coaches and requirements for the A license. At the moment I have 16 total jumps.

My question this morning is regarding gear, and gear choices... since I've been doing my training at Elsinore, the only gear I've used is the student gear.
I was doing some online research into different brands and reading reviews, and one thing keeps coming up thats confusing me... some manufacturers are making rigs that they call the "student" version of their main line... What exactly does this entail?
I mean, I understand that the student gear is designed to be "more forgiving" in certain ways... but what ways are these? What are the sacrifices of going with a rig like this? Would buying a "student" style rig be something I regret in a year, or is it a necessary step in the proper training cycle?

Also... I'm a fairly avid scuba diver, so I can talk all day about the differences between a "good" regulator and a "bad" regulator, such as the quality of parts, adjustments, reliability and ease of breathing.... but so far in skydiving I don't necessarily know what I should be looking at in gear... specifically in a container and main/reserve canopies. Are some made with better stitching and materials? Are some streamlined for different types of pilot chute deployment, or different types of flying? What are the big deciding factors that people use to choose between brands?

I appreciate you're time and input, thanks!
-B

[skybytch 273]

Student rigs are designed for the student environment. They often have adjustable harnesses so they will fit a variety of people and main deployment set ups on both sides so an instructor can get the main out from either side of the student if needed, amongst other things.

You aren't a student anymore. You don't need or want a container designed for use by students.

Check out the articles on this page for answers to some of your other questions.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Good afternoon everyone!

one thing keeps coming up thats confusing me... some manufacturers are making rigs that they call the "student" version of their main line... What exactly does this entail?]

Features useful for student operations like an adjustable harness, release handle for the pilot chute pouch so the reserve side instructor can deploy for the student on AFF1-3, static line stow bands, AAD control located so that it can be turned off in the plane for descent on a jump that gets called off because the student CYPRES fires at a lower desent rate, etc.

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What are the sacrifices of going with a rig like this? Would buying a "student" style rig be something I regret in a year, or is it a necessary step in the proper training cycle?

The average male skydiver goes through 2-3 rigs and 6-7 canopies before they get something they'll keep for a long time because they don't find their safely sized canopy to be exciting enough after 100-200 jumps.

If you bought new you'd be kicking yourself for spending thousands of dollars more than you needed to and be likely to take a loss when you sold it.

If you bought used, it would be sized for large parachutes that wouldn't interest you unless you're really huge (like 250 pounds) in which case the harness wouldn't fit or you like classic accuracy which requiers large slow parachutes.

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but so far in skydiving I don't necessarily know what I should be looking at in gear... specifically in a container and main/reserve canopies. Are some made with better stitching and materials?

Nearly anything built in the last decade will be appropriate for whatever sort of flying you want to do and hold up fine for thousands of jumps.

For your first rig, you're looking for something which fits you and your budget. If your budget is bigger you want to buy a newer canopy design that opens nicer and is more enjoyable to fly.

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Are some streamlined for different types of pilot chute deployment, or different types of flying?

Nearly all experienced skydivers use a bottom-of-container throw-out pilot chute which is pulled out by its apex (so it doesn't have a lot of drag) and extracts the closing pin at line-stretch.

Some student operations use ripcords and spring-loaded pilot chutes.

A few skydivers still like a pull-out where the handle is attached to the pin via a short lanyard and the rim of the pilot chute.

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What are the big deciding factors that people use to choose between brands?

Many people buy what's most popular at their home dropzone which means a Javelin. For a new rig I'd buy a Wings because of the flap configuration (the upward tucking main flap won't dislodge in freefall), delivery time, and price; used I'd get what fits.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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I mean, I understand that the student gear is designed to be "more forgiving" in certain ways... but what ways are these? What are the sacrifices of going with a rig like this? Would buying a "student" style rig be something I regret in a year, or is it a necessary step in the proper training cycle?

"Student" harness/container systems are definately not what one would buy for themselves. They have features that are unnecessary and add complexity to the rig. These features may include adjustable harnesses, setups for static-line jumping, handles that allow instructors to activate the main from the reserve side, a single-handle (SOS) system that simultaneously cuts away the main and pulls the reserve... none of these things would be used by an experienced jumper (with the occasional exception of the SOS system).

The "more forgiving" aspect of student gear is the canopy. The canopies are larger (usually 200 - 300 square feet vs. typical sizes of 120 - 210 for experienced jumpers, with extreme sizes down to 79 square feet and below). They are designed to open more cleanly and consistantly, be less sensitive to uneven input, provide a reasonable landing with imperfect flare technique, lose less altitude during turns, ect.

Most people buy a first canopy that is not all that different from a student canopy (same size or maybe a little smaller, and similar flight characteristics). Most active new jumpers then decide to buy a smaller, faster canopy after a few hundred jumps or a couple of years. If you buy something brand new for $1800 and then have to sell it for $1000 two years later, you might regret it. For this reason, most people recommend buying their first canopy used, so it can then be sold at a much smaller loss of only a couple hundred bucks.

Since containers are designed for a specific range of canopy sizes, it's often a good idea to get your first container used as well, since it may not fit the future smaller canopy. The disadvantage to this is you don't get a custom harness, so it won't be as comfortable.

Any modern gear (last 10 years or so) is constructed well, safe for any flying style, and made from virtually the same materials. The only compelling saftey feature IMO is the skyhook, which is available on the Vector III and on new Javelin Odysseys. Beyond that, it's a matter of what is comfortable, what is priced well, and what you think is asthetically pleasing.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[frazeebd 0]

What is a skyhook?

[bob.dino 1]

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What is a skyhook?

A snazzy new-ish way of getting your reserve out faster in certain situations.

Search for posts by "billbooth" containing the word "skyhook" for all the info you'll ever want on how it operates...

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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What is a skyhook?

The skyhook is an improved version of the RSL (reserve static line). I'm sure you were at least introduced to the RSL in your student training. I'll summarize the differences:

The RSL is a lanyard that connects one of your main risers with your reserve pin. If you have a malfunctioning canopy above you, when you cut away, the riser leaving pulls the reserve pin, and the reserve canopy is quickly deployed. Note that in some situations (specifically in total malfunctions where the main is not out) the RSL cannot do it's job. All student gear is required by the BSR's to be equipped with an RSL, and many experienced jumpers use them also. The RSL is available as an option on all harness/container systems.

The Skyhook takes this a bit further. The lanyard is connected to the reserve pin AND the reserve freebag. Where an RSL pulls the pin and allows the reserve pilot chute to do it's job, the skyhook attaches the main directly to the reserve bag and allows the main to act as a giant reserve pilotchute. Since the main is much larger than the normal reserve pilotchute, it does it's job in less altitude. In a spinning malfunction, the faster nature of the skyhook also reduces the (already very small) chance that your spinning body could become entangled in the reserve bridle as is possible with a standard RSL. Currently, the skyhook is availble on Vector III's and Javelins, although several other manufactuerers are working with UPT to have them installed on their rigs. Vector III is the only container that currently allows the skyhook to be added as a modification after original manufacture.

Do a search as said above, and check out www.relativeworkshop.com for more information.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."