Canopy Collisions as a Percentage Fatalities Over Time

[base698 14]

Using the data from http://skydivingfatalities.info and here and it appears after 2004 the percentage of fatalities due to collisions went up dramatically.

I believe this happened for a specific reason but would like other's opinion. Adding the source files that image is based.

[ljwobker 2]

Equipment keeps getting better (AADs, canopy and container designs, audible altimeters, etc etc etc). This probably reduces the fatalities from other categories (low, no pull, badly managed malfunctions, etc)

The canopy designs keep getting faster, and jumpers with lower experience are learning to fly high performance canopies. The canopies are so good that many jumpers can now land anywhere they want, so many of them try to land as close to [whatever] as they can. This creates congested airspace, which increases the chance of collisions.

I don't think we can underestimate the impact of very high speed canopies in the pattern on this. If you're doing a high performance landing, the airspeed in a turn is probably 60-70mph or maybe more. If there are multiple canopies in the area, you're talking about closing speeds of well over 100mph. That leaves very very little time to react if you realize you're pointed at something you don't want to hit.

[ZeroPorosity 0]

base698

the source files

[inline Capture.jpg]

What do columns A, C, D, E and F represent?
I figure A is the occurance date. C is a fatality cause code. D = age? E = jump experience? F ???
Do you have a legend showing what the abbreviations in column C mean?

[base698 14]

You got it mostly right. The y/n column is aad/rsl. I believe the skydiving fatalities site has a legend. CCOL is canopy collision and in EXP means exceptional which I used to think meant unusual. MAL would be malfunction and LOWT low turn.

I also only included US incidents.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

I believe this happened for a specific reason but would like other's opinion.

Bigger planes, bigger crowd jumping together. We don't know each other. These could be the reason for canopy collisions over the landing area.

Lazy tracking, bad separation can be the reason for canopy collisions after opening.

[piisfish 140]

phoenixlpr

Quote

I believe this happened for a specific reason but would like other's opinion.

Bigger planes, bigger crowd jumping together. We don't know each other. These could be the reason for canopy collisions over the landing area.

Lazy tracking, bad separation can be the reason for canopy collisions after opening.

that plus often faster canopies / bigger speed differences between canopies...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[base698 14]

Those were issues before 2005 as well.

[NWFlyer 2]

base698

Those were issues before 2005 as well.

Was it the fact that Bush got re-elected at the end of 2004?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[riggerrob 643]

Faster canopies equal faster closing speeds.
Faster closing speeds equal greater blunt force trauma when you hit another jumper.
Remember that energy increases with the SQUARE of the velocity, hitting something at 40 mph involves 4 times the energy of hitting it at 20 mph.
How many of you have dismounted a bicycle at 20 mph?
How many enjoyed that dismount?
How many have dismounted a bicycle at 40 mph?
..................

[cs_troyk 0]

base698

Those were issues before 2005 as well.

Significant jump in fuel prices spurred a likewise adjustment to the cost of jump tickets.

Jumpers became more selective about their jumps, and, therefore slightly less current. But to maintain the fun/$$ ratio, jumpers were/are more prone to "save up" for one or two big boogies a year. The increase in traffic combined with the lack of currency is what is getting people into more trouble.

^ Wild-ass speculation. Haven't looked at the reports that back the stats to see if there is a positive correlation between the collisions and larger skydiving events.

[topdocker 0]

I think we are looking at several factors converging here.

First, faster canopies. Flat out, we are getting to our meetings sooner. The canopies are smaller, zippier and many cannot think as fast as their canopies can go.

Second, quiet sliders. Flapping gear used to give you a bit of a heads up that someone was in proximity. Not so much anymore. Also, people are spending time "housekeeping" when they should be paying attention to traffic.

Third, full face helmets. Limit the sounds you can hear canopies do make around you. Also, while they may have wide open field of vision, some helmets are difficult to turn past the risers to effectively look next to you before a turn, let alone down and behind.

Fourth, AFF concentrating students on freefall skills has finally disseminated to the AFFI level. When AFF became popular in the early 90's, most of the AFFI's were static line Instructors as well. SLI's were all about canopy control and taught that way. But as times passed, more and more AFFI's were only that and had only seen that method. We get a generational loss of focus on canopy flying skills by the students who eventually become the Instructors.

Fifth, more mixed loads. Back in the day on the DC-3, everyone was doing belly and had a big, dumb F-111 canopy. Now, an Otter load can have a couple of tandems (big slow canopies) with video (small zippy canopies), a AFF student (one slow big canopy, maybe two small zippy canopies), some wing suiters (smallish, slower canopies), some head down (full range of canopies there), and some belly fliers (full range of canopies). All of these people are opening at various altitudes and times with varying speed of canopies and descent rates.

Sixth, some people insisting that regardless of how full the pattern is, they have the right to bust out a 720 over the landing area and show off. Maybe the pattern is empty or they just missed seeing that one other canopy. Back in the day, someone doing something that endangered that many people sometimes was talked to, but usually got the crap kicked out of them in the parking lot. Usually led by the DZO.

Lastly, many DZ's just do not have a great pattern for jumpers to follow. This results in jumpers flying in conflict with each other all the way until final. Eventually, someone is gonna miss something and run into someone else.

We are taking steps to mitigate some of this, but it takes time and changing of the culture of being a skydiver. Canopy control classes and the B-license canopy card will help. I would like to see a new canopy proficiency card at each license level, that would really help things more.

top

Jump more, post less!

[base698 14]

Or break up the passes so fun jumpers have 2-3 passes for a bigger plane. Less people in the air means less opportunity for a collision.

I think freefliers out last contributed to it because everyone opens at about the same time leading to more congestion.

[rmarshall234 13]

topdocker

I think we are looking at several factors converging here.

First, faster canopies. Flat out, we are getting to our meetings sooner. The canopies are smaller, zippier and many cannot think as fast as their canopies can go.

Second, quiet sliders. Flapping gear used to give you a bit of a heads up that someone was in proximity. Not so much anymore. Also, people are spending time "housekeeping" when they should be paying attention to traffic.

Third, full face helmets. Limit the sounds you can hear canopies do make around you. Also, while they may have wide open field of vision, some helmets are difficult to turn past the risers to effectively look next to you before a turn, let alone down and behind.

Fourth, AFF concentrating students on freefall skills has finally disseminated to the AFFI level. When AFF became popular in the early 90's, most of the AFFI's were static line Instructors as well. SLI's were all about canopy control and taught that way. But as times passed, more and more AFFI's were only that and had only seen that method. We get a generational loss of focus on canopy flying skills by the students who eventually become the Instructors.

Fifth, more mixed loads. Back in the day on the DC-3, everyone was doing belly and had a big, dumb F-111 canopy. Now, an Otter load can have a couple of tandems (big slow canopies) with video (small zippy canopies), a AFF student (one slow big canopy, maybe two small zippy canopies), some wing suiters (smallish, slower canopies), some head down (full range of canopies there), and some belly fliers (full range of canopies). All of these people are opening at various altitudes and times with varying speed of canopies and descent rates.

Sixth, some people insisting that regardless of how full the pattern is, they have the right to bust out a 720 over the landing area and show off. Maybe the pattern is empty or they just missed seeing that one other canopy. Back in the day, someone doing something that endangered that many people sometimes was talked to, but usually got the crap kicked out of them in the parking lot. Usually led by the DZO.

Lastly, many DZ's just do not have a great pattern for jumpers to follow. This results in jumpers flying in conflict with each other all the way until final. Eventually, someone is gonna miss something and run into someone else.

We are taking steps to mitigate some of this, but it takes time and changing of the culture of being a skydiver. Canopy control classes and the B-license canopy card will help. I would like to see a new canopy proficiency card at each license level, that would really help things more.

top

Wow. That to me, is a spot-on and well-articulated summary of what's going on out there. Nice work, Top.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Yep, I figured back in the end of the 90's that a low altitude canopy collision was the most likely way I'd get killed in this sport. Hate to see the stats backing me up on that.

[topdocker 0]

Another somewhat tangentially related issue is we have gotten away from round reserves. Those things my put you down a little harshly, but they opened right now with very little airspeed. That left jumpers with a little more leeway. Also, one round reserve could land two jumpers if need be. It wasn't nice, but it wasn't lethal.

Also, jumpers aren't taught things like "canopy transfer" or "just get more shit out" or what to do in the event of a canopy collision in todays' classes. Students are taught how to perform basic EP's, but that process needs to be refined over time.

Lots of factors.... I'm sure more people will chime in with others that I haven't thought about.

top

Jump more, post less!

[JohnMitchell 16]

topdocker

Another somewhat tangentially related issue is we have gotten away from round reserves.

Very good point. In a perfect world, square reserves are more reliable and much easier on the body. But we don't skydive in a perfect world, do we? Two out with a round reserve is a low speed occurrence, never generating a dangerous, potentially deadly, downplane. Round reserves are unlikely to spiral you into the ground with a fouled or broken line or two. Watched one friend die because of that.

[skydivecat 3]

These are things that now that I am dabbling in CRW that I am learning and am so grateful for the knowledge. Simple things like the difference between and entanglement and a wrap. What steps to take. How to evaluate, who should do what when, ect. ect.

Even as a pup with less than 10 CRW jumps, my canopy education and emergency preparedness has increased drastically for these types of situations.

There isn't enough focus on it, there needs to be more. CRW is providing me with a way to learn and better educate myself. Awesome mentors, thanks Dawgs.

[williammonk 0]

Where did you get these CSV files? This data is severely outdated. Is there an updated version that I could download?

[base698 14]

I screenscraped skydivefatalities.info and the dz.com incidents page.

Could add the latest ones to the source data.

[Bealio 0]

base698

Could add the latest ones to the source data.

NERD!!!!

[JohnMitchell 16]

Bealio

***Could add the latest ones to the source data.

NERD!!!!



We need nerds like this.

[kkeenan 14]

skydivecat

These are things that now that I am dabbling in CRW that I am learning and am so grateful for the knowledge. Simple things like the difference between and entanglement and a wrap. What steps to take. How to evaluate, who should do what when, ect. ect.

Even as a pup with less than 10 CRW jumps, my canopy education and emergency preparedness has increased drastically for these types of situations.

There isn't enough focus on it, there needs to be more. CRW is providing me with a way to learn and better educate myself. Awesome mentors, thanks Dawgs.

I didn't train you, but on behalf of your CRW mentors, you're welcome. CRW is a great builder of confidence, knowledge, and awareness. Even those who don't stick with it leave as better skydivers, no matter what they do.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?