saffire2 vs. pilot

[mrmanta 0]

currently fly a triathlon. love it. always opens and lands soft. I'm going to downsize a bit, and am leaning towards a 9 cell for better landings than my 7. I've heard good things about the pilot, and also safire2. looking for some feedback on aerodyne vx. icarus.
thanks,

[NWFlyer 2]

I think if you're going to compare canopies across the two manufacturers, you'd be better off comparing the Pilot to the Safire as they are similar designs. Crossfire's a different animal altogether.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[woodpecker 0]

I agree with NWFlyer, you cant compare a pilot against a crossfire. Two comletely different canopies...not even close to similar.

I currently jump a pilot though and love it. Nice openings, good glide, nice recovery arc. No problems at all.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[DougH 270]

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...nice recovery arc.

That would depend on what he wants to do with the canopy.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[phoenixlpr 0]

The question is what you want. Pilot is perfect everything but swooping. Everything is depending on WL too, but Crossfire2 is not for faint harted.

[jakee 1,489]

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I'm going to downsize a bit, and am leaning towards a 9 cell for better landings than my 7. I've heard good things about the pilot, and also crossfire

If you're just wanting better landings I'd go for the Pilot (or Icarus Safire2) both of which have incredible openings and powerful flare.

I'd say the Crossfire2 has more flare than either of them, but it is also an extremely high performance canopy that does need a lot more care and attention.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[tdog 0]

I am not normally one to bash a product, but I hated my Pilot and am SO glad I moved on. (Granted, personal preference, but...)

Opened nice. Flew nice. Hated the landings. If you flared like a student, you could get a nice landing if you timed it right. If you wanted a plane out, in a nice two stage flare - good luck. (Maybe my trim was off by the end or something, but I hated it from jump 150-300 when I finally purchased a PD product and fell in love).

I know I am going to get flamed, bring it on, but I have flown (only to prove I have flown more than one canopy):

Pilot, Diablo, Katana, Sabre 1 and Sabre 2, Spectre, Safire, Stiletto, Crossfire, Blackjack, Mojo, Dagger, Troll, Navigator, Triathlon, and - the only canopy I hated more than the Pilot's landing - was a "Laser" reserve that was in a container I borrowed not expecting to see the guy's reserve.

[DougH 270]

That is too bad, but maybe you can share more information.

What size was the pilot, what did you load it at. Did you move to a higher wingloading when you got rid of the pilot?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[tdog 0]

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That is too bad, but maybe you can share more information.

What size was the pilot, what did you load it at. Did you move to a higher wingloading when you got rid of the pilot?

Yes, I moved to a higher wingloading for the skydiving canopies I own, but I was at 1.1 to 1 on the pilot, and have flown other canopies in that same wingloading. In fact, the inspiration to sell the canopy came when I demoed other canopies at the same wingloading or one size smaller. In one weekend I borrowed 8 different rigs.

I own a Katana (day to day canopy) and Sabre 2 (wingsuit canopy) each at 1.45 wingloading.

I own a Troll and Blackjack each at .72 wingloading (like 300 sqft big).

To me, my comments are not about wingloading - but the ratio of forward speed to downward speed in the flare. I can run - so forward speed is ok. I cannot run while using legs as a shock absorber, so downward speed is not ok.

I just remember the Pilot always having a crap load of downward speed that I could not eliminate. This caused a fair share of "feet, knee, hand" landings as if I was jumping off a 5 foot tall box. It got worse when I tried to do a two stage flare as the plane out had sink.

Again - opinion only. If you want, demo a Pilot. You might like it. Maybe at higher wingloadings you will like it more? For me, no thank you. I had enough.

[AllisonH 0]

That's interesting - very different from my experience. I load my pilot 132 somewhere around 1.05 to 1, depending on lunch and lead, and one of the things I really like about it is how soft the landings are. It did take me about 30-40 jumps to figure out just how to land it, but now the landings are fabulous unless (sometimes even if) I do something really dumb.

All the more reason to borrow/demo any canopy you think you're interested in before you buy one! I had a demo of a Safire2 last summer that I let 2 other people put a few jumps on. 2 of us hated it, the other loved it. Just have to try a few until you find the one that feels right to you.

[tdog 0]

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All the more reason to borrow/demo any canopy you think you're interested in before you buy one!

Yes, despite the fact I have strong opinions, I cannot agree more.

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It did take me about 30-40 jumps to figure out just how to land it

Why?

[DougH 270]

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[...I was at 1.1 to 1 on the pilot, and have flown other canopies in that same wingloading.

Thats cool, I was just wondering if your loading was possibly very low on the pilot because your experince sounded so 180 from mine, but 1.1 is right around my loading when I first started flying a pilot.

I have about 300 jumps on pilot over the past year, sizes ranging from the 188 to the 132. The 188 was my first canopy right after AFF, and I put about 150 jumps on a 168 at a loading of about 1.1.

Even at the lighter loadings I never experinced a problem with getting the canopy to stage and land exceptionally well.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[tdog 0]

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Even at the lighter loadings I never experinced a problem with getting the canopy to stage and land exceptionally well.

Mine was brand new, and I put maybe 300-400 jumps on it. Maybe it was trim issues? Who knows? Personal preference?

[bodipilot 0]

I jump a pilot 150 loaded at about 1.6 to 1 and jump at Skydive Arizona year round. With just a small amount of wind, the canopy planes out very well and I surf for quite a while and then come to a tippy toe landing. In summer w/o wind, I run my ass off, but who doesnt run, at Eloy in the summer?? Perfect soft, on heading openings every time with light toggle and riser pressure. Awesome parachute!! Only thing- It was advertised as 100% zero-P, when I got the canopy, I found out the ribs are F-111!! Emailed Aerodyne about it, they pretty much said OH WELL!! Did not offer to rectify the situation in any way. Probably wont buy another Aerodyne product- nice parachute though!!! BlueSkies

[DougH 270]

I am sure their designers are working on that problem right away.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Only thing- It was advertised as 100% zero-P, when I got the canopy, I found out the ribs are F-111!! Emailed Aerodyne about it, they pretty much said OH WELL!! Did not offer to rectify the situation in any way. Probably wont buy another Aerodyne product- nice parachute though!!!

Wow! What a research project you had!

How about having the next research project about the correlation of the porosity of the ribs and flying characteristics?

Please keep us posted!

[darkwing 5]

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Only thing- It was advertised as 100% zero-P, when I got the canopy, I found out the ribs are F-111!! Emailed Aerodyne about it, they pretty much said OH WELL!! Did not offer to rectify the situation in any way. Probably wont buy another Aerodyne product- nice parachute though!!! BlueSkies

I can see some advantages to F-111 internal ribs, and NO disadvantages. I have long wondered why more mfrs don't use F-111 ribs (although I think I know why). I don't understand why you feel cheated.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[jakee 1,489]

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I just remember the Pilot always having a crap load of downward speed that I could not eliminate. This caused a fair share of "feet, knee, hand" landings as if I was jumping off a 5 foot tall box. It got worse when I tried to do a two stage flare as the plane out had sink.

Wierd. Tried a Pilot 124 at around 1.3/1.4 this weekend and immediately found it had enough flare for a no step landing in nil winds.

Personally I would probably take a Safire2 over a Pilot, but it would be a close call. The new generation of intermediate canopies are all so good that it's just personal preference to choose between them, IMO.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[AllisonH 0]

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It did take me about 30-40 jumps to figure out just how to land it

Why?

[kaerodyne 0]

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Only thing- It was advertised as 100% zero-P, when I got the canopy, I found out the ribs are F-111!! Emailed Aerodyne about it, they pretty much said OH WELL!! Did not offer to rectify the situation in any way. Probably wont buy another Aerodyne product- nice parachute though!!! BlueSkies

Strange, the Pilot has never been marketed as a full ZP canopy, unless your dealer was the one you got the info from, the Plot has always been a Hybrid canopy, ZP top and bottom with F-111 ribs.

We do apologies if you were misinformed on the design of the canopy, and so to for the response you received from us when you contacted the office.

Blue Skies

Karl Meyer
Sales Representative
Aerodyne Research
Office: 1 813 891 6300
www.flyaerodyne.com
www.myspace.com/flyaerodyne

[fmmobley 0]

I moved from a Triathlon 190 to a Pilot 168. Since they are the only canopies I have ever owned I can't say the Pilot is better or worse than any other canopy, but I can say I absolutely love my Pilot. Using the Pilot I have had great landings from the very first jump, in all kinds of wind.

Also, Aerodyne customer service was first rate. I had a slight manufacturer's defect with the first Pilot they sent me, they took care of the problem completely to my satisfaction, and were a pleasure to work with.

Good luck. Tell us what you decided on.

... Marion

[kaerodyne 0]

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currently fly a triathlon. love it. always opens and lands soft. I'm going to downsize a bit, and am leaning towards a 9 cell for better landings than my 7. I've heard good things about the pilot, and also safire2. looking for some feedback on aerodyne vx. icarus.
thanks,

Erik

Please get in touch with Sandy Kimball at our Tampa office, she runs our demo program and will be more than happy to assist in getting a demo out to you.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us.

Blue Skies

Karl Meyer
Sales Representative
Aerodyne Research
Office: 1 813 891 6300
www.flyaerodyne.com
www.myspace.com/flyaerodyne

[bodipilot 0]

Are you retarded? You sure seem like you are.

[mnealtx 0]

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Are you retarded? You sure seem like you are.

SOMEone sure sounds like it... but it's not phoenixlpr...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[proswooper 2]

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The question is what you want. Pilot is perfect everything but swooping..

I agree it is perfect for all around skydiving but i disagree with you about swooping. I have done 250ft swoops with a pilot 117 consistently. it has a similar recovery arc in my experience to a crossfire2 in similar sizes.

it is very swoopable. despite not being designed as a swooping specific canopy.