norcalbaker 0 #1 November 13, 2007 Im getting a new AAD and I have heard that Vigil fixed all of its problems with the Vigil II, i like the long battery life and no maintanence, but safety first, what do you think? BLUE SKIES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #2 November 13, 2007 Argus or Cypres2 ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #3 November 13, 2007 cypres2 all the way. they dont let their customers bounce, err, beta-test..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maurice1369 0 #4 November 13, 2007 hey man you will find that there are a lot of ppl who will say that Cypres is the best but I believe that you need to make your own decision in the end a1nd i would hope that you go with an informed and anylitical decision over what others sayEXPECT THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #5 November 13, 2007 I'm Biased - But next time I buy an AAD, I'm getting either a Vigil or perhaps an Argus. I love Cypres, and I know that their product has proved the test of time, but given the amount of research and testing that the other two manufacturers have done and how they have stood behind their product as well, I feel every bit as comfortable with their unit on by back as well.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicolai 0 #6 November 13, 2007 Cypres2. Thats whats in my rig. It's brand new, so i won't be getting another for many years to come.. I'm comfortable knowing it's there. blue skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HSPScott 0 #7 November 13, 2007 Quotehey man you will find that there are a lot of ppl who will say that Cypres is the best but I believe that you need to make your own decision in the end a1nd i would hope that you go with an informed and anylitical decision over what others say I agree with this. I called around to different gear stores and got opinions from people that sell this gear for a living ( Mike @ Pier, Mel @ Skyworks..) I bought a Vigil 1. I had an issue with it and Vigil had great customer service. They sent me a loner to jump, and then a brand new Vigil 2. They even paid all shipping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 4 #8 November 14, 2007 personally an Argus However they all do the job and can all fail. They are nothing more than a back up. blue skiesI like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
docjohn 0 #9 November 14, 2007 I'm tired of throwing away perfectly good Cypress's just because they hit the arbitrary expiration date. I replaced my first expired Cypress with a Vigil. My 2nd Cypress expires next year and I'm buying another Vigil. My 0.02 Doc http://www.manifestmaster.com/video Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #10 November 14, 2007 Quotecypres2 all the way. they dont let their customers bounce, err, beta-test.. Really? Hey, I love Kool-aid as much as the next guy, but...-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #11 November 14, 2007 The only problem with the Argus I've heard is that they do not have an auto-shutoff feature so if you forget it on you may need a trip to the rigger by the next weekend. I read up on each unit, the cypres 2 and the vigil2. I like the fact that the cypres has more years of R&D but the vigil2 will ultimately be my choice. Not only do you have the bonus of a longer service life and lower TCO but you also have a larger potential market should you ever want to sell it. The vigil2 can be set to student, tandem or pro. I also took a good look at the cases, cables and associated hardware. From looking at each unit and toying with them a bit I believe the vigil is probably a bit "tougher". Of course an experienced rigger can probably comment more on that. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maurice1369 0 #12 November 14, 2007 As you can see it is very important to research what you are interested in. I persdonaaly chose the VIGIL2 because of the 20 year lifespan as well as the multimode. The fact that the VIGIL was cheaper was never an option because they both are good products as well as what is offeredEXPECT THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #13 November 14, 2007 QuoteThe only problem with the Argus I've heard is that they do not have an auto-shutoff feature nonsense. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rover 11 #14 November 14, 2007 Coke or Pepsi?2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #15 November 14, 2007 QuoteThe only problem with the Argus I've heard is that they do not have an auto-shutoff feature so if you forget it on you may need a trip to the rigger by the next weekend. The Argus certainly does have an automatic shutoff feature. Section 1.6 of the Argus manual begins, "The Argus will automatically shut off after 14 hours, or you can do it yourself by the following procedure: ..." How did you determine that the Argus lacks an auto-shutoff feature? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #16 November 15, 2007 QuoteNot only do you have the bonus of a longer service life and lower TCO but you also have a larger potential market should you ever want to sell it. The vigil2 can be set to student, tandem or pro. not a benefit. just a marketing ploy. from an engineering, design philosophy, standpoint there are more possible failure modes. if the vigil fires and it should not have fired; that is a design failure. This could happen on any jump w/ a vigil. just because you turned it on in pro mode, unless you check it every jump, there is no guarantee it is still set in the same mode. Every flexible characteristic designed into the vigil makes it's proper functioning more dependent on the operator to check and operate it correctly. If you're a sport jumper why would you ever need to switch the mode? vigils are designed to activate in false positive scenarios (unit will activate when the user would not want an activation). there was a time when skydivers would exclude others from skydives w/ AAD's because of this unreliablity. cypres is superior because of its reliable design philosophy."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeepDiver 0 #17 November 15, 2007 QuoteI'm tired of throwing away perfectly good Cypress's just because they hit the arbitrary expiration date. A proven track record of performance is more important to me than a bit of cash deprecated over 12 years. But that's just me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #18 November 15, 2007 Quotejust because you turned it on in pro mode, unless you check it every jump, there is no guarantee it is still set in the same mode. Based on that statement you have made it very clear you do not know how the Vigil works. The Vigil uses the same button/light sequence as the Cypres to turn the unit on and to cycle through the menus.In order to get it to change modes you have to INTENTIONALLY push the button at several different intervals when the light flashes to even get the unit to the mode where it can be adjusted and then you have to push more buttons. The odds that it could accidentally be put into that mode unintentionally are astronomically improbable. Chapter 10, pg 34 of the users manual clearly shows how deep you have to go into the menu system to change it from one mode to another. What you are claiming is utterly preposterous and sounds like typical misinformation that is passed around the bonfire. People have the choice of several AADs to choose from these days. If they spent less time listening to here-say and opened any AADs users manual and educated themselves, falsehoods such as this would not be perpetuated."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gay-unicorn 0 #19 November 15, 2007 I went with a vigil II because it packs up smaller. It makes it easier for riggers to pack a Vigil II into smaller containers.Don't hate me 'cause you aint me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivepete 0 #20 November 15, 2007 I saw last week a Vigil II and an Argus next to each other. The Argus is much smaller and lighter too. PS in your profile: an 18 sq ft reserve canopy?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #21 November 15, 2007 QuoteThe Argus certainly does have an automatic shutoff feature. Section 1.6 of the Argus manual begins, "The Argus will automatically shut off after 14 hours, or you can do it yourself by the following procedure: ..." How did you determine that the Argus lacks an auto-shutoff feature? Oops, my bad I meant an Astra. As for why you would want a multimode - it would be far easier to sell. If you're a pro then you can't sell your used AAD to a TM or a student unless it's a multimode one. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 November 16, 2007 Quote Based on that statement you have made it very clear you do not know how the Vigil works. The Vigil uses the same button/light sequence as the Cypres to turn the unit on and to cycle through the menus.In order to get it to change modes you have to INTENTIONALLY push the button at several different intervals when the light flashes to even get the unit to the mode where it can be adjusted and then you have to push more buttons. The odds that it could accidentally be put into that mode unintentionally are astronomically improbable. Hasn't there already been an incident relating to being in the wrong mode? If so, your 'astronomical' part is toast. He's right that it's marketing. Is the 20 year lifespan guaranteed by Vigil, or just predicted and subject to review? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #23 November 16, 2007 QuoteHasn't there already been an incident relating to being in the wrong mode? If so, your 'astronomical' part is toast. Yes, I believe there is a thread about it in one of the forums and the owner of the rig admits that he lent his rig to his friend WHO PUT IT IN STUDENT MODE(because he was a student). The owner failed to inspect(simply looking to ensure the AAD was on before jumping) the rig before jumping it himself and the AAD functioned within its parameters. I have also told an individual who was putting his AAD in the student mode for wingsuit jumps DESPITE what the manufacturer had previously told him, not to do so and explained why. After a detailed explanation he still did not change the setting. Two jumps later I witnessed a simultaneous main and reserve deployment. In both instances, the device worked as it was designed for the mode that it was in. It was the user not being as smart as the piece of equipment they were using who were at fault. There are no incidents where the AAD just magically went from PRO to Student or through random use/bumping caused it to change modes, so my previous statement remains correct and is not toast. Many skydivers are ignorant of how their equipment is designed to work yet they expect it to save their lives in the event of an emergency. They are also quick to blame the equipment when the fault is due to their using the equipment/rigging or packing it erroneously . Don't believe me? Ask people at what speed and altitude their AAD is designed to activate. Most have no idea or will give a non definitive answer like " I think its when", when all they had to do was open the user manual to see exactly what speed and altitude the device they are depending on to save their lives functions. People are more willing to stand around and listen to here-say/urban legend (and repeat it) than to spend 10 minutes reading the user manual for their AAD or other equipment and educate themselves. User manuals for all the AADs manufactured and other skydiving equipment comes with the product and are readily available online for free so there is no good reason why people should be ignorant about their equipment..... especially when their life may depend on it. It's your life, only you can decide how much effort you will devote to staying among the living by educating yourself with credible information."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 November 16, 2007 Quote In both instances, the device worked as it was designed for the mode that it was in. It was the user not being as smart as the piece of equipment they were using who were at fault. There are no incidents where the AAD just magically went from PRO to Student or through random use/bumping caused it to change modes, so my previous statement remains correct and is not toast. Nonetheless, the incidents happened. You listed two separate scenarios that can be repeated. The most valuable use for the option is a shared rig (rental), which is the one where the users are least likely to have read the documentation. I think the price makes the Vigil a valid alternative, but this feature is less than worthless to me, and I still question the lifespan argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #25 November 16, 2007 QuoteNonetheless, the incidents happened. Don't neglect to acknowledge your original statement about "toast" and the incorrect information about how the event occurred. There are numerous examples in skydiving where "incidents happened" due to jumper error/ignorance/misuse of equipment. Does that automatically mean the fault lies with the equipment? Of course not, it lies with the jumper making the decisions that they did. Ignorance is not a good defense in a court of law or in life, especially when your life hangs in the balance. QuoteI still question the lifespan argument. Fair enough, I'll tell ya what,20 years from now we will know for sure but have you ever seen a Cypres still work after 12 or more years? Of course, there are thousands of them that still work so it's not hard to fantom that the lifespan could be as long as it is."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
