NickDG 23 #1 November 13, 2007 Neat story about a pilot save. Turns out the pilot is/was a jumper so that probably had an affect on the outcome . . . http://www.wmur.com/news/14576272/detail.html NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #2 November 13, 2007 Quote he said that if he hadn't gotten out, he would have been seriously hurt Seen the pic of that plane? Seriously hurt??? Seriously dead more likely ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #3 November 14, 2007 Quote He said he has parachuted at least 1,000 times, and he said this time was just more expensive. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #4 November 14, 2007 Article say paramilitary, L.D. was Para-rescue, and a good friend of Bob Holler's. http://moleski.net/ULTBIPE/n38pc.htm The AC before yeaterday! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #5 November 14, 2007 Cool story Nick, thanks for posting. It would be way cool to get a no-shit pilot save. I haven't packed a pilot bail-out rig in about 3 years, but knowing how most pilots don't get their trash repacked anywhere near the 120 day cycle, who knows, maybe those pack-jobs are still in service. I'm sure they'd work... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #6 November 20, 2007 Thanks for sharing Nick. Any word on what type of chute he was wearing? Round? Square? Aviator? Butler? Strong? National? Para-Phernalia? ??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #7 November 20, 2007 I just looked at the second video at the upboard link and maybe it's just me being overly skeptical but there's few things that are jinking my smell meter . . . In the shorter first video he shows where the canopy snagged on something and ripped during landing. In that shot, and I'm not 100% sure, it looks like a round of some type. He also says he just had the parachute repacked the day before and mentions the rigger by first name and calls him, "Lee." And all that makes sense. But in the second longer video he mentions releasing the brakes on the canopy, but maybe he just misspoke, or isn’t used to jumping rounds. But he does say he has a 1000 jumps and mentions being fomer "para-rescue" and I would imagine that would be on rounds. However, they also call folks who jump 20-feet into the water from a helicopter "para-rescue." But even so, would any para-rescue person make a 1000 parachute jumps in an entire career? I'd doubt it unless he's counting sport jumps too. But he mentions, "hitting the silk" and that's not really something sport jumpers say out loud. Another thing he says is he had six to seven reserve rides and that sounds unduly high for a 1000 jumps. We all know pilots and jumpers never exaggerate so I'm just wondering. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #8 November 20, 2007 Quote Another thing he says is he had six to seven reserve rides and that sounds unduly high for a 1000 jumps. True... I've got 3 in 3000+ jumps (touch wood) & even "saved" myself on 2 of those, but I do know folks (that are shitty packers) that have twice that in 500ish jumps. I wonder if anyone has checked to see if this guy was behind in his house or aircraft payments? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #9 November 20, 2007 I had a discussion this weekend about this incident while at the airport. The discussion was with a very experienced aerobatic pilot and he brought it up. His opinion was that this pilot caused an embarrassing situation for all aerobatic pilots because of lack of experience in dealing with a flat spin. I just think it's nice that he walked home rather than being carried to rest. What do the pilots think of the situation? -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #10 November 20, 2007 Quote His opinion was that this pilot caused an embarrassing situation for all aerobatic pilots because of lack of experience in dealing with a flat spin. I just think it's nice that he walked home rather than being carried to rest. What do the pilots think of the situation? What do I think of the situation / what if I had been part of the conversation you mention... 1) Couldn't give two rips about the guy you were talking to feeling "embarassed" because this other person decided to un-ass himself from his airplane and use his parachute. No matter how he got to that point and/or whether or not he should've been able to get out of it without using his parachute. A buddy of mine who used to fly A-6s said it best when folks brought up the topic of "when to" or "whould you" step out of the jet if "this, that or the other thing" happens?... 2) When it comes down to it... Would you rather be standing in front of your Commanding Officer explaining to him or her why their multi-million dollar aircraft is a smokin' hole after you banged out of it... or have them standing in front of your spouse, kids, parents telling them (in PC terms of course) why you're a crispy critter because you're a dumb ass and rode it in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #11 November 20, 2007 Better to jump and try, than stay and fry . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #12 November 21, 2007 Roger that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #13 November 21, 2007 QuoteThe discussion was with a very experienced aerobatic pilot and he brought it up. His opinion was that this pilot caused an embarrassing situation for all aerobatic pilots because of lack of experience in dealing with a flat spin. The accident is getting talked about on the International Aerobatic Club email list. There's some good review going on about spin recovery techniques, aerobatic practice altitudes, and setting a bailout altitude. There's a fair bit of criticism of the pilot in question, for messing up the spin recovery. He had sufficient height but not a lot to spare and he left the power on initially after falling out of his maneuver, thinking he could recover anyway given that aircraft's characteristics. Whatever the merits of this, it was wrong in that he couldn't get it recovered in time. A 1500 foot hard deck isn't much and it is still impressive that he got out in time from that level, so at least he gets points for a quick bailout. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #14 November 21, 2007 Well, sounds like they're calling this guy a "puss", but at least he's a "live puss"... which I'm sure he'd rather... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMT 0 #15 November 21, 2007 Quote The discussion was with a very experienced aerobatic pilot and he brought it up. His opinion was that this pilot caused an embarrassing situation for all aerobatic pilots because of lack of experience in dealing with a flat spin. -Michael I wouldn't say he caused an embarrassing situation for acrobatic pilots. He wasn't flying reckless, was above 1500' agl, and wasn't breaking FAR's that I know of. He was flying a demanding airplane, and screwed up the recovery. He could have been higher, and he could have saved it. He admitted his mistake and in doing so provided a learning opportunity for all acro pilots who read it. Most pilots would have covered it up with "it wouldnt respond", causing doubt about how safe aerobatic flight is. He also had an exit plan, something very few acro pilots have, and he stuck to it. He is alive therefore it was a textbook bailout. This spin recovery with power problem is nothing new, Gene Beggs "discovered" it in the 70's, and even developed an emergency spin recovery procedure that I have taught since the day I learned it, it has worked in everything from j-3's to stearmans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #16 November 22, 2007 Discussing it with the local aerobatic pilot I asked if a flat spin was recovered by application of power to pull yourself out of it. Sometimes that can be the right answer in a car. I was surprised that the right answer was to reduce power. Learn a few new things every day... -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyblu3 0 #17 November 23, 2007 wanna see an awesome save: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGhtpiWOZ5o Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #18 November 23, 2007 Holy crap, talk about hitting the water at linestretch. Unfortunately one of those pilots did not make it. Maybe they need a skyhook for airplanes. (Static lines?) -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMT 0 #19 November 23, 2007 They already do, strong makes a version of a paracushion that is both a pilot restraint, and parachute system. It replaces the foreign equivalent on the Russian Albatross and Delphin jet trainers, and has the option of a 16' static line. The static line works like an rsl, it just pulls the ripcord pins out of the closing loop with a ring, which at high speeds Im sure would be a firm opening, but thats probably why they use the C-9. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #20 November 23, 2007 I believe too that Airtec/Cypres has a version of their AAD for "bail out" rigs, although I'm not sure how widly they market it. The way I understand it works is you put on the rig which is equipped with this special version of Cypres, get in the aircraft, hook up some sort of lanyard and then if while flying you have to bail out, the lanyard "pulls" and "turns on" the Cypres and then the Cypres activates the parachute after a short delay. I'm not sure if that is all accurate, I've only ever seen one once and didn't have much of a chance to pick the brain of the rigger / test jumper using it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
