Students and Audible Altimeters…

[Chubba 0]

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Get rid of it then man...you just answered your own concerns, and get that 100 jumps in then...you don't need to nearly do something...DO IT

Do you really think it's wise to do any sort of freefly from 10k without an audible.

The CI/DZO seems pretty set about the idea.

It is a nice luxury though, I love tracking hard on the 1st alarm then dumping on the 2nd, no effort.

[fasted3 0]

I am unclear about your role in this. Beyond mentioning it to the DZO and the S&TA, what action do you feel is required of you?

But what do I know?

[erdnarob 1]

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You have to be careful with your "altitude awareness" since it can cheat on you when conditions, type of jump, altitude...change.
Generally a student well supervised knows about his jump and opening altitude. What is more tricky is when having experience you rely on your experience too much sometimes then there is a change and you get caught. Habit is good but can kill you. I was thinking, what is the most reliable? a beeper or your "altitude awareness". A beeper will not change when conditions of the jump do. Your mind can.
As a pilot I can say that if by any chance you fly into a big cloud, you always have to rely on your instruments especially the artificial horizon dial on the dash. According to studies, the best pilot cannot fly an airplane more than 172 seconds and keep it horizontal without the help of instruments. Without visual reference, after 172 max or well before, a pilot loses the sense of verticality (or horizontality). He absolutely has to rely on the artificial horizon to fly the airplane horizontally. Otherwise this is the spiral down to the ground.
The most amazing is that when a pilot get deprived from visual reference and rely on his instruments, his mind and body sometimes do not believe the instruments and the pilot starts flying with instruments but his body is tilted sideway according to what he thinks is the vertical (reference: Jeppesen and Sanderson PRIVATE PILOT MANUAL). At the private pilot ground school, it was quite scarry for me to discover that I couldn't always believe my eyes or my sensations. Now coming back to skydiving, I would say that: beware of your habits. Your mind can be wrong.

Knowing that, I believe that a beeper or audible altimeter is a good accessory. Camera people should have two of them. OTOH jumpers should take every possible cue for the altitude: beeper, visual, other people going away or shaking legs...etc

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[pilotdave 0]

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According to studies, the best pilot cannot fly an airplane more than 172 seconds and keep it horizontal without the help of instruments.

I know the study you're thinking of, but that's not quite what it was about. They had instruments, but they were non instrument rated pilots (in a flight simulator). On average, even with the help of instruments, they lost control after 178 seconds in IMC.

Dave

[Rstanley0312 1]

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I definitely do not think a audible is good for AFF/students, I got mine @ 50 jumps and nearly regret it.

I wanted to build my altitude awareness for a 100 - 200 before I got one, but the CI insisted VERY strongly that I require one for backfly's/backtracks and my first attempts at sitflying.

I set my optima at 4500,3500,2000

I always check my visual alti during the skydive and before breakoff.

I think I got mine just before I hit 100 jumps and agree with your sentiment. At the same time I was sure I focused on my wrist altimeter and was never pulling after the ring from my audible. I love it for breakoff from formations. I do not think a student should use on and would say that a jumper should be pretty close to 100 jumps before they begin using one. I am still a low timer but it was not too long ago I was on student status and I think an audible would detract from some fundamentals that need to be learned! my $.02

Blues

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[beowulf 1]

I think audibles should be required for all new freeflyers. Especially for someone who has a lot of belly jumps. I know that I have an internal freefall clock that is set to freeflying speeds. I have been doing so much freeflying that I expect the dive to only last a certain amount of time. The last belly dive I did was flying camera for a four way. I was freaking out at about 6000 feet wondering why they haven't started tracking away yet! I had to glance over at my altimiter to see that it was early still, but that feeling of "OH Shit we are going low" really freaked me out!

[erdnarob 1]

As a VFR private pilot, I had 3 hours of flying with the hood simulating instrument flying with an instructor beside me. That saved me and my passengers a couple of times when suddenly I got a complete overcast below me and I had to go down for landing and going thru the clouds. I didn't do it on purpose but it happened. I wasn't an instrument flying pilot but had got some training just in case. Your are right it is 178 seconds to be exact. Thanks.
That was to illustrate to be careful and not necessarily to rely on an "awareness".

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[rhys 0]

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I don't like audible altimeters for students. They build bad habits.

I say bullshit, we had dytters in our helmets when i was a student, I did static line, but i am an AFF J/M.

If a student does not have altitude awareness, it will be obvious to the instructor, if he/she are any good at instructing.

An audible is a good idea, it is another reminder and it need not be set for any height above or about the desired deploying height. if the dytter goes off before they deployed... then they fucked up.

They are a safety device and anyone that has access to one should use it.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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I have an internal freefall clock that is set to freeflying speeds. I have been doing so much freeflying that I expect the dive to only last a certain amount of time. The last belly dive I did was flying camera for a four way. I was freaking out at about 6000 feet wondering why they haven't started tracking away yet! I had to glance over at my altimiter to see that it was early still, but that feeling of "OH Shit we are going low" really freaked me out!

i did a jump from 20k one time and i had the same thing, i was tapping my alti and looking down from about 10k down.

we got 90 sec freefly though

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[LongWayToFall 0]

I had an issue right off of student status, of checking my altimeter too often. As the jumps went by though, I got an idea of when I should start taking a look because the break off is getting close. Eventually I had a really good idea of time, and I am glad I had no audible.

I think audibles for pull time are a good thing, because it takes a bit to get used to the time it takes to track, wave off, and pull, all without looking at your altimeter. You shouldn't need it for break off though.