Round Reserve

[livendive 8]

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BUT how many people opining on the evils of round canopies have ever jumped one?

While I haven't been opining on the evils of round reserves, my one jump on a 26' LoPo convinced me that I didn't want one in my rig...and that my PLF training should have been from the top of the jump shack for a bit more realism.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[BIGUN 1,314]

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been from the top of the jump shack for a bit more realism.

Bet you love the movie "Independence Day" when Will Smith lands a round after ejection.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[councilman24 37]

When we were jumping students on 35' t-10's PLF training was from the roof of a pickup, backwards both right and left roll. After of course forwards right and left.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[BIGUN 1,314]

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Are you coming to give lectures about stone-axe or how to make a brass spear head? The weather is not optimal for jumping a round, so you don't have to bring any.

We can do the lectures during the day; but perhaps we can get 800' of altitude for a night jump on a round?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[livendive 8]

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When we were jumping students on 35' t-10's PLF training was from the roof of a pickup, backwards both right and left roll. After of course forwards right and left.

Today I make my students do all those, but from the tailgate of the pickup rather than the cab....ahh, the pussification of skydiving.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[wmw999 2,447]

I only used to do the roof (of the DZ van, not a pickup) for particularly heavy and out-of-shape jumpers; the idea being that if they were likely to land harder than most, and I'd much rather discourage them early instead of later.

One of them went on to accumulate several hundred jumps
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[livendive 8]

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I only used to do the roof (of the DZ van, not a pickup) for particularly heavy and out-of-shape jumpers; the idea being that if they were likely to land harder than most, and I'd much rather discourage them early instead of later.

One of them went on to accumulate several hundred jumps
Wendy W.

Speaking as one of those heavier jumpers, would I get banned if I called you a bitch? I do still do LOTS of PLFs every year, demonstrating each one several times each first jump course. I've seen other instructors that don't make them jump off anything, but rather let them fall down from a standing position, while on a packing mat! Personally, I figure if they're too afraid (or too unhealthy) to jump off the tailgate of a pickup truck, I'd rather give them a refund than let them jump. So far this has happened exactly once...a guy suddenly remembered his recent knee surgery that he'd failed to mention on his waiver.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[wmw999 2,447]

Heavy and out of shape. That doesn't apply to fashion sense (I've heard about the white sox and Texas), but physical conditioning.

Also, I WAS a bitch ; my I ticket expired 20+ years ago.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[hackish 8]

So I'm working on my round rating. I actually find them easier to pack than a square but oh, all those people concerned about 20 year-old reserves would have a lot of trouble if we started using round reserves... Sadly it seems like a skill quickly dying off as people retire from the sport.

-Michael

[SEREJumper 1]

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I've landed a round a in a lot of places where a square with the forward speed would have made it harder. But of course may not have been landing there to start with using a square.

I have no doubt of your skill. It's the lack of skill I would be worried about when their 1st round ride is a reserve. Not that many people would/take the time and money to get as good as they need to be.

I'm a round lover though

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[pchapman 279]

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Also, those rounds slam you into the ground so hard, I like my legs all not broken.

They're hardly that bad, even if landings can be a bit athletic. I think there are a bunch of people who stalled out Microravens on landing over the years who would have been better off under rounds!

Peter
(My 1st reserve ride was a Phantom 24 in 2002, backing up in 15-18mph surface winds. Rolled that one out, unlike my ParaCommander mains, which I usually stand up.)

[yarpos 4]

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Why don't more people use a round reserve. I may be talking out of my ass here but from what I know they're opening characteristics are more stable, theyre less prone to malfunction, ....

I'm sure somebody of more experience will comment on the reliability aspect, but I think that the failure rate of rounds isn't higher than square reserves.

Also, those rounds slam you into the ground so hard, I like my legs all not broken.
I don't really know howto do a proper PLF like I would need to do on a round.

Excellent question though.

Im sorry but that statment re rounds pounding you into the ground just isnt so. At 200 lbs I have four round reserve landings in the old days (3 different models) all were gentle enough to have stood up, even though I PLF'd for safety and one less thing to think about. None were anywhere near a bruise let alone a broken leg.

Re mal rates I dont really know, my gut tells me the square is probably better. The issue is how much shit are you in landing the result when it does happen. I have seen a guy walk away from a line overed round reserve landing. I havent seen a person land a serious square reserve mal yet....hope not to.

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[councilman24 37]

It's not that tough. My first jump ever was on a 28' C-9. The spot was very long. I ran the whole way back. Realized that I needed to get over a road and land short of the fence and did that. For all of my student or newbie jumps on T-10's or my PC I landed within 100' of the packing area. Except one where the spot was so bad (not mine) that I landed 2000' away.

Jumping round is fun. It's quite! More like riding in a hot air ballon (burner off).

Squares let a lot more people jump. And let us do a lot more, or better worded get away with a lot more. But rounds worked too.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[wmw999 2,447]

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Jumping round is fun.

If it hadn't been fun, I don't think skydiving would have existed all those years before squares. And while there were fewer people, they weren't insignificant (as they were before the advent of sleeves and modifications on cheapos)

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,991]

> I think there are a bunch of people who stalled out Microravens on landing over
>the years who would have been better off under rounds!

That's an excellent example of why rounds are a problem, actually.

It's not hard to land a heavily loaded Micro Raven, and if flown well they land pretty softly. But landing it is very different than landing most squares, because you can't flare them like a normal canopy. The problem isn't that the canopy can't be landed softly, it's that it can't be landed softly with what most people know about landing ram-airs.

Rounds are the same way. They can certainly be landed safely, but they require a very different skill set than someone used to an efficient ram-air has. Someone who tries to land a round without any specific training is going to end up someplace he doesn't want to be, and he's going to break his ankle when he tries to stand up the landing in the parking lot of the Wal-Mart.

[377 22]

I have had two cutaway reserve rides, one in a $25 second hand Navy 26 ft conical round and the other in a virgin $900 PD 193R. Both landings fortunately were standups. There are distinctive advantages to each type, but if I had to pick one it would be (and is) the ram air. When you jump in winds you had better have a reserve that can handle them. A round is pretty limited in this regard because it has such low forward drive speed. I still have my 26 foot Navy conical, but is kept for sentimental reasons and not for jumping. Fortunately, the day I had to use it the winds were under 5 knots.

Look up "Beatnik" posts for a video of a recent canopy collision and cutaways to round reserves. Not a common sight these days. One of the deploying antique reserves leaves a long and very visible dust contrail as it opens.

Simple rounds, for reasons that baffle me, are less reliable than complex ram air squares. Anti inversion diapers on rounds improved things, but a square is still your best bet for a reliable opening without a canopy malfunction. If you have better reliability and better ability to control where you land if you choose a square, why go with a round? If you have two out you might be better off if one were round but in all other situations I can envision I'd want a square reserve.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[tbrown 26]

Also, those rounds slam you into the ground so hard, I like my legs all not broken.
I don't really know howto do a proper PLF like I would need to do on a round.

[stitch 0]

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So I'm working on my round rating. I actually find them easier to pack than a square but oh, all those people concerned about 20 year-old reserves would have a lot of trouble if we started using round reserves... Sadly it seems like a skill quickly dying off as people retire from the sport.

-Michael

Why ? I use a 24 year old Glidepath reserve. I don't have a problem with it.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[SStewart 13]

I have 8 total reserve rides. The first 7 were on rounds. 6 of those landed on the DZ the other one was miles away but that was due to a high cutaway in strong winds but that is another story....

I never had a problem with round reserves but that is likely because I had almost 60 jumps on rounds as a main. Half of my cutaways were with capewells. Three rings made things so much easier.

My last reserve ride was on a square 202 rascal and I did a stand up in the peas. I had my cutaway handle and reserve rip cord in my teeth and I spit them out as I flared and yelled "eat fuck skydive" as I landed.

I have not jumped with a round on my back since that day. I was SOLD! That was my last malfunction 18 years ago and over 2000 jumps ago.

Back in those days we were jumping in rural areas with lots of outs. The big concern was trees, animals or fences. Nowadays we have freeways and houses and industrial parks.

Unless my situation changes I will likely never jump a round again.

Onward and Upward!

[format 1]

Am I a chicken not to sit on unsteerable aircraft?

and unless you had to ride on it - makes you what?

just asking of coarse

What goes around, comes later.

[airtime1 2]

Today I make my students do all those, but from the tailgate of the pickup rather than the cab....ahh, the pussification of skydiving.

Blues,
Dave

When I first started hanging out with the "after jump" crowd I was told that "real" skydivers practiced their PLFs off the roof of the local bar.

After proving myself, I also quickly discovered how pissed off the owner gets with people on his roof.

It was a few months later when I truly became a "real" skydiver by getting my first DUI.
Ah, the good ole days.

RobH

[SStewart 13]

Rounds are steerable, the glide ratio is different and they take more skill to spot and land.

I think it is safe to say that detractors have little or no experience with such equipment.

I can knock it because I have tried it.




PS you should still spot for the freebag and cutaway main. That shit aint cheap.

Onward and Upward!

[AFFI 0]

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I had my cutaway handle and reserve rip cord in my teeth and I spit them out as I flared and yelled "eat fuck skydive" as I landed.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Skydivesg 7]

I'm a round lover though

I've got a SAC 22 I'll sell ya.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[Faicon9493 141]

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Ever hear some old fart say "a round will get you down but a square will get you there"?

HEY!!! I resemble that remark! I caught the tail end of the round parachute days (mains & reserves) and I'm glad those days are over.