Peaches87 0 #1 March 24, 2009 i got through b and c on saturday and it was a breeze. i was feeling a bit nervous on sunday. my jump went fine and i got my 90s. i missed a few altitude checks and the end of the fall was kind of a mess. i thought i was locking on at 5500 and pulling at 5000 but apparently i was supposed to pull at 5500. I remember locking on around 6500 and losing my heading for a few seconds but still stable. at i guess what was around 5200 i went for the pull and with my hand on the hackey i forgot to wave off and went back to wave off and didnt pull till ~4000. I'm a little concerned that im not realizing the importance of altitude awareness and pull alt and am more focused on the techniques and little signals. I DONT want to risk safety and the cost of possible recurrency. did anyone else have this happen? its not happening every jump, all three saturday jumps i was very altitude aware. does anyone have any suggestions about A.A. when in AFF and techniques to make sure pull is on time. all weekend i felt more comfortable locking on 500 feet earlier but sunday even locking on at 6500 i pulled about 1000 feet late Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #2 March 24, 2009 "Lock on." -- Gosh, how I hate that! Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #3 March 24, 2009 Quote i thought i was locking on at 5500 and pulling at 5000 but apparently i was supposed to pull at 5500. Have your dive plan memorized 100% before you board the aircraft. Quote i guess what was around 5200 i went for the pull You guess? Quote with my hand on the hackey i forgot to wave off and went back to wave off and didnt pull till ~4000. The assigned pull altitude is pull time. Forgetting to do the wave off shouldn't be an issue for passing the level. If your hand is back on the hackey, pull it. Dont hammer yourself too hard. Know your altitude and pull abit early on your jumps, rather then too late. www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #4 March 24, 2009 Low???? i figured i would be reading about REALLY busting altitude... and a cypres fire,,, and all of that exciting stuff....instead i see that you opened ABOVE 5 grand....but because of your current level of experience, that WAs low.. ok... i guess i get it. have fun but STAY altitude aware. be careful when you ' l. o. ' , as you say,,,, that you don't fixate...jmy POPS 3935 nscr 1817 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #5 March 24, 2009 The OP says he pulled around 4k. If his assigned altitude was 5.5k, 4k is pretty low. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #6 March 24, 2009 oops my bad.......didn't properly read the entire post. jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #7 March 24, 2009 Quote"Lock on." -- Gosh, how I hate that! Yeah, and notice how this student said, "...and am more focused on the techniques and little signals." Maybe fewer of these "little signals" would be a good idea. Maybe that "lock-on" stuff isn't really helping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #8 March 24, 2009 Quotedoes anyone have any suggestions about A.A. An audible may help, although that may also be a bad idea because you'll do like a lot of people and rely on IT only sometimes. When I first started I would practice at home by wearing may alti and make it a point to look at it every 10-15sec for about 10 min at a time. It just got me used to looking at my alti a lot. Not an instructor so take it for what its worth.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #9 March 24, 2009 Quote Quote does anyone have any suggestions about A.A. An audible may help, although that may also be a bad idea because you'll do like a lot of people and rely on IT only sometimes. That is a fantastic idea, he will definetly learn Altitude Awarness if he has something blaring in his ear that he can rely on! A midget on his back to pull on time would be an even better solution. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #10 March 24, 2009 Thanks for the new Sig line Doug! We should try to think of the forum we are in before posting advice but your response is spot on! "... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humbled1 0 #11 March 24, 2009 Quote Quote Quote does anyone have any suggestions about A.A. An audible may help, although that may also be a bad idea because you'll do like a lot of people and rely on IT only sometimes. That is a fantastic idea, he will definetly learn Altitude Awarness if he has something blaring in his ear that he can rely on! A midget on his back to pull on time would be an even better solution. omg I will be laughing at that one all day....I cannot the get mental picture out of my mind, a midget on his back pounding on the top of his helmet while screaming, PULL!"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 March 24, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote does anyone have any suggestions about A.A. An audible may help, although that may also be a bad idea because you'll do like a lot of people and rely on IT only sometimes. That is a fantastic idea, he will definetly learn Altitude Awarness if he has something blaring in his ear that he can rely on! A midget on his back to pull on time would be an even better solution. omg I will be laughing at that one all day....I cannot the get mental picture out of my mind, a midget on his back pounding on the top of his helmet while screaming, PULL! ....................................................................... Tandem masters are just AADs with big egos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 March 24, 2009 Waving off is a courtesy, while pulling is a life-saver. If you know you are close to opening altitude - and you have your hand on the handle - PULL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavydude 0 #14 March 24, 2009 When I did AFF they warned us about if you missed the waveoff go ahead and pull if its clear and your hands on the hacky. Starting the whole process again wastes time and gives you the lower pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slj678 0 #15 March 24, 2009 I did something like that during AFF, I went back to wave rather than just go ahead and pull.. Its better to pull and not wave than to wave and not pull "I didn't know they gave out rings at the holocaust" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #16 March 24, 2009 Keep that jump in mind as being a good lesson. It is surprising how the mind can cheat on us sometimes. That's why on the way up you should always review all facets of your jump. This is the advantage of airplanes not climbing too fast; they gave you the time for a couple of mental rehearsal. I recommend you to have a beeper or better yet, 2 beepers.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #17 March 25, 2009 QuoteWaving off is a courtesy, while pulling is a life-saver. Not relevant to AFF necessarily, but a waveoff most definitely can and does save lives...I know from personal experience as I am sure many others here do. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #18 March 25, 2009 Quotei went for the pull and with my hand on the hackey i forgot to wave off and went back to wave off and didnt pull till ~4000. Pull time is pull time. Once you realized you were supposed to be pulling, you should have forgone everything else and simply deployed. Getting caught up in other stuff at deployment time will suck you down, just as it did there.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feeblemind 1 #19 March 25, 2009 From the SIM section 4.a.2.j: Stop all maneuvers at 5,000 feet and maintain a stable arch on heading with positive leg pressure through wave-off and deployment. Bodypilot1 is right on as always (no need to quote him ) Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #20 March 25, 2009 Quote From the SIM section 4.a.2.j: Stop all maneuvers at 5,000 feet and maintain a stable arch on heading with positive leg pressure through wave-off and deployment. Bodypilot1 is right on as always (no need to quote him ) The SIM section you posted is a general outline for dive flows. What I was referring to was appropriate procedures in the real world. Unless something has changed since I began teaching AFF nearly 20 years ago, students are trained to deploy at or by a specific altitude on each jump, and the procedure they are to take when they find themselves below that altitude is to pull immediately. The poster's jump was a perfect example of how fast students can and do blow through altitude when they let themselves get caught up in the unimportant. He stated that he originally reached for his deployment devise at 5200' (thinking he was supposed to deploy at 5K), and by the time he double-clutched, waved off, and threw out, he was smoking through 4 grand. That's a full 6 seconds and 1,200 feet just to wave off and dump. Besides being safest for young jumpers because of their habit of getting temperal distortion (loss of time awareness), having a "hard deck" (where the student stops EVERYTHING - wave offs included - and deploys) also serves to give students an absolute from which to make good decisions in the least amount of time and with the least amount of altitude loss.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feeblemind 1 #21 March 25, 2009 Quotei got through b and c on saturday and it was a breeze. i was feeling a bit nervous on sunday. my jump went fine and i got my 90s. i missed a few altitude checks and the end of the fall was kind of a mess. i thought i was locking on at 5500 and pulling at 5000 but apparently i was supposed to pull at 5500. This is what I was referring to, that per the SIM the assigned pull altitude for a cat D-1 should be 5,000 ft. Sorry for any confusion. Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richravizza 28 #22 March 26, 2009 Hey peaches87, My instructor told me befor the jump."I fail more student on this jump than ANY OTHER because they're having so much FUN they Forget to pull on time"Sure as shit, I'll pull @5k,I told him. Well!!!, I tracked counted in my head1,2,3,4,5,I was patato chipping,that sucked ALT.CHECK. I'm @6.5K I'll do a better one 1000,2000,3,4,5, yaa! much Better, ALT.Check 4.8KPULL!!! I didn't Wave and threw as fast as i could. If it wasn't for the quick reaction, without a wave off. I would have had to repeat the jump. THIS 200ft.miss step SCARED THE SHIT OUT OF ME. Hope you learned from this. I did. P.S. hope this didn't mess with your head too much and you keep going. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #23 March 26, 2009 Congrats, Peaches! You learned something on that jump! You got a good look at how fast altitude can burn off as you go through the pull sequence at the student level. By your description, altitude awareness was not the problem. Double-clutching at pull time was the problem...and you already knew that.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
