Wing Loading

[taylor.freefall 0]

Im new to skydiving, just finished AFF, so the subject of gear has raised its ugly head. Tonight I've been looking around and thinking about wing loading. I'm 226lb out the door. ive been jumping 230 up to now which would make my WL 1.0:1, or thereabouts.
So my question is how accurate does this have to be? would it be careless to go slighltly over like 1.03:1? I've been sat here with a calculator all night working out different sizes, I'm probably thinking out loud but it doesnt hurt to ask. I know it would be silly to go too much obviously, but just a little? Anyway I'll stop waffling. Thanks
OH presuming the usual safe limit is 1.0:1 or less. for novices.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

So my question is how accurate does this have to be? would it be careless to go slighltly over like 1.03:1?

You got it right. WL is not like pi or e for dozen of digits. I don't think even the 2nd decimal has any sense.

If I were you I'd choose a 260(280) or 240 with those jump numbers you have. It depending the DZ elevation too.

[CazmoDee 3]

"If I were you I'd choose a 260(280) or 240 with those jump numbers you have."

Why do you think he should upsize?

I'm behind the bar at Sloppy Joe's....See ya in the Keys!

Muff 4313

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Wether a 230 is the right size for you is really a question to ask your local instructors who know your skills, but it doesn't raise any red flags in my mind.

Often people site 1:1 as a MAX for novice jumpers and encourage them to choose a W/L of 0.8 - 0.9, however it is more of a concern with smaller students, as 1:1 may put them on a 150 or smaller, which dramatically changes the flight characteristics vs. a 230 at the same W/L. Sizes above 230 are also difficult to find, as many models don't come any bigger. For example, to my knowledge PD only offers >230 on two ZP models, the Navigator (240, 260, 280) and the Sabre2 (260).

Finally, 1:1 vs. 1.03:1 is really not important... I would say don't bother looking past the tenths digit, as people's weight can fluctuate several pounds throughout the day without noticing a difference in flight.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

"If I were you I'd choose a 260(280) or 240 with those jump numbers you have."

Why do you think he should upsize?

I did break my ankle on a Navigator 220 ~WL 1.0 at jump number 87. Oh, I know he is special....

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

"If I were you I'd choose a 260(280) or 240 with those jump numbers you have."

Why do you think he should upsize?

I did break my ankle on a Navigator 220 ~WL 1.0 at jump number 87. Oh, I know he is special....

don't you mean that YOU are special ? :)

[AKCrash 0]

I am a new jumper like you are. My exit weight is from 285 to 295 lbs. Not sure because I didn’t want to break the scale. In the beginning I used to jump 300 sq ft with no problems. I downsized to 280 and finally to 260 as I was hoping to purchase 240. On my 44th jump I severely broke my ankle (along with two broken fragments in my tibia as well). My WL was 1.1:1 I jumped the 260 several times before the injury occurred, but I learned that if I got away with it once, it doesn’t mean it is safe to do it all the time. I am not in the position of giving you advise as I have the same experience as you do. However, from personal incident, BE VERY CAREFUL

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Franklin

[taylor.freefall 0]

Yeah I see what you mean. I think I'm going to veer on the side of caution and look for a 240 9 cell parachute, then after I'm confident go to my lower size. It cant do any harm to take things easy. Is it an easy thing to change over parachutes like that ie 20ft difference either way?

[wildfan75 1]

Due to a toggle incident my jump #42 with a WL of 1.2, I landed in full flight due to not being able to flare. I walked away with only a sore knee. Another person at my dz broke an ankle with a WL of 0.55, healed, came back and broke the other ankle at the same WLing a few jumps later. Everyone is different. Talk to your instructors. They've seen you fly, they've seen you land, they know your general athletic capabilities. They are the only ones that can give you good advice that is specific and right for you. Advice on here is a generalization.

But what do I know (seriously), I'm a newbie too.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Quote

I think I'm going to veer on the side of caution and look for a 240 9 cell parachute

Not a bad decision at all, but as said you may have trouble finding one unless you're buying new, and even then your options will be limited. For used stuff in those sizes you'll want to make sure you know what you're getting (i.e. 240 navigator would be a great choice, but 240 sharpchuter, an old F-111 design, not so much).

Quote

Is it an easy thing to change over parachutes like that ie 20ft difference either way?

It depends on the size and model and your budget, but if you're willing to spend time looking it can be done.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

don't you mean that YOU are special ? :)

That's for sure.

That's one way to learn what break surge is about.

[taylor.freefall 0]

Looking at manafacturers guidelines for max weight limits for students/novices/int/adv etc, the recommended weight limits are WAY below what wing loading theory would suggest. Example PD 218 it says something like the max weight limit should be 170lbs. but using the wing loading theory you could be 218lbs out the door making a WL of 1.0:1.
Am I making any sense here? So what I'm saying is that if you follow manafacturers guidelines theres no way a student/novice could even get near a 1 -1 WL?! I'm confused. I used to think a parachute was just a parachute, beans are beans and cheese is cheese?!
And then if you exceeded those guidelines is that then dangerous?

[gay-unicorn 0]

Quote

I did break my ankle on a Navigator 220 ~WL 1.0 at jump number 87

Uuuh? yeah! you suck at flying canopies is why you broke your ankle. Any person with some competence can safely land a 220 regardless of experience, wingloading, and/or conditions.

Don't hate me 'cause you aint me.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

Any person with some competence can safely land a 220 regardless of experience, wingloading, and/or conditions.

Oh, yeah. I can tell you. I was 100% confident, than !@$!%@#%, ambulance, hospital and I have a steel plate with 4 screws for good.

...........
Don't tell me! A year after I have seen the same canopy in action. It was some light guys first jump. I had a bad feeling, but I was not a jump master. He got radio as guidance, he was coming towards the forest, than panic flare at 5-8m than drop from there. He got a broken ankle and I was holding his leg until ambulance arrived.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

Example PD 218 it says something like the max weight limit should be 170lbs.

PD 7 or 9 cell is a piece of history.

Quote

but using the wing loading theory you could be 218lbs out the door making a WL of 1.0:1.

What on where? You not suppose to load an F1-11 canopy more than 1.0.

Quote

I'm confused. I used to think a parachute was just a parachute, beans are beans and cheese is cheese?! Unsure
And then if you exceeded those guidelines is that then dangerous?

How about reading the warning label on the canopy before you pack?

Go ahead, an ankle heals fast, about 4 month off....

[taylor.freefall 0]

Quote

Quote

Example PD 218 it says something like the max weight limit should be 170lbs.

PD 7 or 9 cell is a piece of history.

Quote

but using the wing loading theory you could be 218lbs out the door making a WL of 1.0:1.

What on where? You not suppose to load an F1-11 canopy more than 1.0.

Quote

I'm confused. I used to think a parachute was just a parachute, beans are beans and cheese is cheese?! Unsure
And then if you exceeded those guidelines is that then dangerous?

How about reading the warning label on the canopy before you pack?

Go ahead, an ankle heals fast, about 4 month off....

I'm trying to ask serious beginner questions and youre coming across as quite a smart arse. Your sarcastic answers are not useful. It's people like you that put off new people asking questions. If you have nothing constructive to say then please, dont say anything.

[gay-unicorn 0]

Quote

Oh, yeah. I can tell you. I was 100% confident, than !@$!%@#%, ambulance, hospital and I have a steel plate with 4 screws for good.

So why did you not land good?

Quote

He got radio as guidance, he was coming towards the forest, than panic flare at 5-8m than drop from there.

Maybe you need a new method of teaching?

Quote

You not suppose to load an F1-11 canopy more than 1.0.

I've read that several times on here. Tell me where I can find this information from a reliable source, not just some joeblow internet moderator but a real and reliable source. You still probably couldn't convince me because it really is an opinion. I've seen people jump there old falcon 170's, Raven 1's, etc. etc. for a lot of jumps (100's upon 100's) and they can fly their canopy better then the sky gods with with zero permiability-cobalt 135's.

To the original poster. Granted you try it out and seek guidence from your instructor. A PD 218 will do you good. Its an inexpensive way to start your skydiving career. After a few dozens of jumps you will likely get bored of it and could probably resell it for what you bought it for.

Don't hate me 'cause you aint me.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

Example PD 218 it says something like the max weight limit should be 170lbs.

PD 7 or 9 cell is a piece of history.

there's still PLENTY being resold.

Quote

but using the wing loading theory you could be 218lbs out the door making a WL of 1.0:1.

What on where? You not suppose to load an F1-11 canopy more than 1.0.

is that why lots of people load their F111 reserves it much higher than 1:1 ?

Quote

I'm confused. I used to think a parachute was just a parachute, beans are beans and cheese is cheese?! Unsure
And then if you exceeded those guidelines is that then dangerous?
How about reading the warning label on the canopy before you pack?

Go ahead, an ankle heals fast, about 4 month off....

Dude, you are not helping. Answer questions that you know answers to, leave the smartass comments at home. I am surprised your attitude has always been like this (reading through the old G&R posts)

[billvon 2,989]

>Any person with some competence can safely land a 220 regardless of
>experience, wingloading, and/or conditions.

I know one or two quite competent people who have broken bones landing canopies of that size. Not as competent as you, surely, but with several thousand jumps, perhaps a hundred demos and a PRO rating. (It should be noted that their good judgment in using such a canopy meant it was just a broken ankle instead of a broken back - or worse.)

[popsjumper 2]

Why not stay with what you are used to for now?
On the face of things, I don't see anything wrong with that. You're obviously doing well enough for your instructors to keep you on that size throughout your training...I'm sure they would agree.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

I'm trying to ask serious beginner questions and youre coming across as quite a smart arse. Your sarcastic answers are not useful. It's people like you that put off new people asking questions. If you have nothing constructive to say then please, dont say anything.

Well, If you missed the answer read me first post, the short answer was there...

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

So why did you not land good?

I did know _everything_, than got a lession about a break surge....

Have you heard it? If you don't have it in your head you will have it in your leg....

Quote

Maybe you need a new method of teaching?

Observing that someone is breaking himself in panic? Its almost as good as you'd do for yourself. I was not teaching there I happened to be on place.

Quote

I've seen people jump there old falcon 170's, Raven 1's, etc. etc. for a lot of jumps (100's upon 100's) and they can fly their canopy better then the sky gods with with zero permiability-cobalt 135's.

Quote

I've seen people jump there old falcon 170's, Raven 1's, etc. etc. for a lot of jumps (100's upon 100's) and they can fly their canopy better then the sky gods with with zero permiability-cobalt 135's.

Those skygods might have been flying something else as a first canopy than a Cobalt135.

Quote

A PD 218 will do you good. Its an inexpensive way to start your skydiving career.

If its for free.... Even a Navigator flies better than those. You can find used ZP or Hybrid canopy for cheap.

Quote

After a few dozens of jumps you will likely get bored of it and could probably resell it for what you bought it for.

Getting bored? What a nice reason to downsize!

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

is that why lots of people load their F111 reserves it much higher than 1:1 ?

Go and find it out! A reserve usually has less than 10 jump altogether and flies and lands better. Anyway this topic is not about reserves.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

is that why lots of people load their F111 reserves it much higher than 1:1 ?

Go and find it out! A reserve usually has less than 10 jump altogether and flies and lands better. Anyway this topic is not about reserves.

no, this topic is about a new guy asking questions, and you keep bashing him and others who make helpful statement.

learn to be humble.

[taylor.freefall 0]

Quote

Quote

I'm trying to ask serious beginner questions and youre coming across as quite a smart arse. Your sarcastic answers are not useful. It's people like you that put off new people asking questions. If you have nothing constructive to say then please, dont say anything.

Well, If you missed the answer read me first post, the short answer was there...

Your first post makes no sense,