upgrading to industrial machine

[jda 0]

- but which one??

I've been learning to sew with an old singer merrit that was my mom's many years ago. It just cant handle the tension of E thread to save its little life. And at some point I kinda broke part of the bobbin case and things havent been quite the same.

So I've been looking at industrial machines along the lines of pfaff 138/238, singer 20u, and the sailrite 111. I'm open to any other suggestions as well but I need something that can handle E thread, multiple layers of cordura, zero-p, and be able to attach a tape folder to as well (have been using double sided tape on my Singer...) My budget is 500-1000. Any thoughts as to whats going to give me the least amount of headaches? Most of my projects are kites and cordura bags and random other things. Thanks for any help!

Jeff

[councilman24 37]

I like the 238 I got but I'm still get it fine tuned. The foot lift wasn't very high but I've almost doubled it with redoing the lift. If your'll still interested in home machine type I've made lots of toggles on older Viking and Necchi machines. 6 layers of type four zigzag. But I've worn out three. And now they go for almost as much as a used 20U

I'm not impressed with new 20U's. I think they all come from the same line in china and get various names slapped on. A friend was given a generic one with a chinese manual that hasn't worked well yet. I was trying to buy an older Japanese manufactured 20U before I found the 238. Green one are from Japan. I think tan ones are too. White ones are Chinese. I've never heard of very many people that use a sailrite, but they seem to have lots of positive press. The best thing about them seems to be the advertising. One thing you may not know is the outer case is sheet metal. Not a casting like commercial machines. And the throat depth isn't very big.

I've gotten three machines off ebay. Search commercial as well industrial machines. Do an advanced search to look for stuff near enough to pick up. Atlantic sewing always has a lot of machines on ebay and they packed the thing very well. Fing an ad and call them to see if they have what you want. There's a place in Neosho MO that is selling a whole shop full. But they seem to want a lot of money.

Accessories, needles, parts etc should be obtained from a commercial dealer, not a local shop. Local shop, $6 per 10 needles, industrial sewing supply house $15 per 100.

I've used Universal Sewing supply so far. Henderson is supposed to be good - very large online catalog with 20% of there stuff.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[jda 0]

Thanks for the info on the 20u's I'll be sure to look for an older one if I go that route. The more I look into the sailrites the less impressed I am. Good to know about the sheet metal bodies too, that kinda turns me off. I've started looking at the Juki 1541 which looks like it would do everything I need, but is a bit over my budget although the wife said it was fine with her if thats what I wanted... Tempting to go that route as it would be easy to just order a new machine and not have to worry about it needing alot of work. I'm going to give ebay some more trying though before I go and pull the trigger on that Juki.

And thanks for the heads up on industrial supply prices vs the local home machine guys. THanks for all your help!

Jeff

[councilman24 37]

Thought you wanted a zig zag? Juki 1541 isn't.

BTW if you look on ebay check on whether it has a 3 phase or single phase motor. Many machines coming out of commercial use has a 3 phase motor that you don't usually want to wire for at home. Motor obviously can be changed. Just be aware.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[jda 0]

Well I did want zig-zag (good point!), but kinda made that less of a priority after looking through everthing I've done and found no zig zags...

Good thought on the motors though I'll keep in mind that I may need to be alloting some extra money for a new one if its a three phase.

Thanks

Jeff

[councilman24 37]

If you just want a walking foot machine like the Juki I might suggest not spending money for new. There are a lot of older singers around and parts for them are still readily available. I just bought a very nice one for $250 with table and motor. Was really worth $400-$500 but it was pick up only and I got if for the opening bid.

Certainly a new one would be nice but for the cost of the Juki you could have a singer walking foot and a Pfaff 238 or used 20U. Kind of like buying a new car, except older sewing machines last for a hundred years.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[velocityphoto 0]

What models of singer should i look for ? I don't have a table or anything and all i see on ebay needs the table ,machines only ?? There are some 15-91 machines on there. Don't know much about them though

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[sprtdth 0]

Quote

except older sewing machines last for a hundred years.

Yea they do. The Singer 31-20 that I use daily was made in 1910.

CRW Skies
Frank
CRW Diva #58

[councilman24 37]

One machine doesn't to it all. But some can do a lot.

Standard straight stitch machine for canopy repair is 31-15. Straight stitch, no reverse tailor machine. One I just got was made in 1930's. Got it just to have it and because it was $75 with nice wooden table and motor.

Walking foot/needle feed old singer standard is 111W155. Bought one this year off ebay for $250 with table and motor. Excellent function and like new table and motor. Should have been $400-$500 but was pick up only and listed under commercial and not industrial. Too heavy for canopy work for the most part. Good for upholstery, container, etc.

Newer style zig zag machine is singer 20U in various versions. New ones are made in china and sold by many companies but all about the same, not so good. Older singer ones that are green or tan, not white, and made in Japan or somewhere else besides china are good. Lighter duty commercial zig zag that will handle 3 thread.

Search forum for other recommendations. Just got a Pfaff 238 this year also.

I've done a lot of sewing, as I said above, with older Necchi and Viking home machines. But the older Vikings are going for as much as used 20U's now.

Many machines on ebay come with table and motor. Shipping is usually about $150 and comes by UPS in 3 or 4 packages.

New table and motor from internet dealer is $250.

You can find out about any singer machine by looking at the manual at http://parts.singerco.com/ and DOM at http://www.sew2go.com/singerdate.htm


I'm NOT the expert. I'm cheap and picking them up where I can. I have a 111W151 needle feed that I got for $100 at an auction, the 111W155, a 7-31 harness machine I bought local, a Necchi BU on a commercial table thats a nice little machine from an auction, the Pfaff zig zag and a singer double needle.

I'd suggest searching forums, deciding what you want, and looking for a used dealer in Philly or Columbus. I know of one in Toledo but not familiar down that way. But Philly out to have something.

Or make a road trip to Danville Ill. for this one.http://cgi.ebay.com/Bernina-Industrial-SEWING-MACHINE-217n12_W0QQitemZ320194796664QQihZ011QQcategoryZ26256QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
A lot of riggers I respect like this machine. At least I think it was this one.

And it doesn't have to be a singer.

Also check craigslist. Just found a consew 225 walking foot machine nicer than the singer I have for $350. Damn, no room for another one.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,439]

To all of you out there,

Re: http://cgi.ebay.com/...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


If this Bernina 217 is in any decent condition then this is a fantastic opportunity to get a great machine.

I do notice that it does not have the attachment so that you can install the cams. However, it will still do a straight stitch and a 304 zig-zag.

I have one or I would go for it myself. Someone needs to, IMO.

JerryBaumchen

[councilman24 37]

I'm close enough to go get it. That's how I got a very nice 111W155 with nice table for $250. I was close enough to pick it up.

Anybody wants to front me the money and some for gas I'll be glad to go get it. Forget the gas if you want me to hold it for you for 10 or 20 years.

Actually someone did me a favor of picking one up and holding it for me for a few months. I'm glad to return the favor.

Hmmm, I'm not so close, 240 miles. But still could do it. If you let me take it apart about $60 in gas. If you want it whole $120. I might be willing to split the deal and keep the table and ship the head. Let me know if someone wants to work something out.


Here's another one in Maryland starting cheaper. Doesn't look quite as nice and I can't tell if it takes cams or not. Jerry?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130182900250&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:us

My wife would shoot me if I got another machine right now.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,439]

Hi Terry,

1. I got a reply email from the seller asking for my phone number ( which I sent to her ), so we will have to see what happens. I might just be interested; that is a VERY good price.

2. I looked at your ebay listed machine ( if that could be had for $100 then it would be the buy of 2007; if it is in good shape ); still no box/bracket for the cams. The box/bracket for the cams is just that and it bolts onto the backside of the machine when you are sitting at it.

I do not consider the cams really necessary for most work. I got the cam box/bracket with the proper cam to do a 308 zig-zag because I simply like that stitch ( just an old fart thing ).

I'll keep you posted on what might develop,

JerryBaumchen

[councilman24 37]

Can the cam thing be added? And if so could it be found? If I thought I could scam it through my wife I might. But if your bidding let me know so I don't bid against you. I doubt that I will bid just having gotten the 238.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,439]

Hi Terry,

1. The cam thing can be added; it just clips or bolts on.

2. I am not sure about finding it. When I first got began negotiating for my 217 it did not have the cam thing or the proper cam that I wanted. The seller then found everything & I got just what I wanted.

More info in our emails,

JerryBaumchen

PS) I believe that someone ( not me ) stated on this site that they are the very best zig-zaggers to be found.

[JayhawkJumper 0]

The Bernina 217 is a great zig zag. I have one, which I just had tuned up. It was out of time but now runs great. I've sewn on things 8 layers thick including two layers of cordura with no problem. I've also sewn on ZP with it. They cost a bit more than a straight stitch though. Got mine for 850 with new table and motor.

If you want a good straight stitch, I can point you to a dealer in LA that has refurbished Singer 591's for $350 including table/motor.

[heavydude 0]

I bought a used Consew from my work before I got into Skydiving, used it to sew webbing, covers and misc. It is missing the model # but its a zig-zag. Used consews seem to last forever as parts are readily availible. I am not sure how popular these are in Parachute repair though ?