RW suit

[rehmwa 2]

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There's an awful lot of junk you can pay for on a jumpsuit......giant mega vented pleated humongo booties when you've never used booties before. Then there's pockets all over, extra zippers (I love long leg zippers but I know 4-way guys would always recommend against them), afterburners, stripes, wings, swoop cords, and on and on and on. .

ouch - who wants all that crap - you need (IMO) two things: Performance (effective booties and a perfect fit), and Grippers (functional for pieces and build definition).

1 - full sized regular booties (maybe a stiffener if you don't like the booties sized tight enough work without) (no zippers - weak point, no 'features' like vents or burners , etc)

2 - full gripper set - big grippers (I like 1.5", 2" is too big, the little old fashioned tubes tootsie rolls are pointless) THat also means get the inside grippers.

3 - cordura if you plan to spend a lot of time in it or do some tunnel training or leave it on to pack

4 - one pocket

so "everything" to me means everthing that's actually functional.

all that other stuff I consider pointless gimmicks or just cosmetic options - and I prefer all black with just color on one half of the grippers

more clarity - so it turns out we've come full circle and pretty much agree on what's needed (gripper size is a goofy discussion and I'll leave the need for inside leg grippers alone as the difference between turning points and just goofing around)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pilotdave 0]

And your choices make it clear that you emphasize 4-way (or at least competitive skydiving) when you buy a jumpsuit.

All black with color on one side of the gripper... best for the judges. Some people like wild colors despite the fact that 4-way judges don't.

No leg zippers because they're a weak point... might lose a competition because of a zipper. (I love the high zippers because I can put on and take off my jumpsuit with my sneakers on... much more convenient for me when I'm switching between an RW suit and a camera suit.)

Inside leg grippers - needed for 4-way but not in general (i have nothing against them, but they cost extra and don't help someone fly their body).

No extra pockets - not needed for 4-way even though they might be handy to hold rubber bands and stuff (though one inside pocket is plenty).

And of course big grippers (but not too big!
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that you're giving advice based on what works best for 4-way. I've seen 4-way people suggest jumpsuits that are FAR too fast for regular RW groups because 4-way guys like to fall FAST. Crazy bright colors look good in pictures too. Black is so hard to photograph...

Dave

[NeedToJump 0]

I tried to clarify some of my earlier posts, but I'll address your points.

-Because most of you guys are talking fashion instead of function. Big grippers, small grippers, etc.
I definitely did not intend it to come off that way. I'm all about function over fashion. Big grippers are much more functional than small grippers.

-Because the OP probably hasn't yet gotten a grip (no pun intended) on just what he wants to invest his money in according to his flying style.
Getting tunnel coaching and talking to experienced RW people will help someone figure this out very quickly.

-Because he may well decide that freeflying is his thing and not RW.
He's asking about an RW suit

-Because he indicates that he is looking for used and not new...cost may be an issue here.
My advise on options is regarding a new suit. Obviously if buying a used suit, you get the suit as is. (Yes, you can modify it)

-Because the OP may not have yet figured out what his average fall rate is and how a jumpsuit can help/hinder that. I'd hate to see him shell out all that money only to decide afterwards that it was not what he needed or that it is not best for his flying style and fall rate.
I completely agree. That's why I suggest getting tunnel time to learn to fly and control fall rate, etc

-Because I give the OP credit for being smart enough NOT to buy something that doesn't fit.
Knowing if a suit fits properly or not is not a matter of being smart, it's knowing what parts of the fit are important. As I said above, I do a lot of coaching and I've seen tons of people buy used suits that don't fit properly. They tell me the suit was a good deal and fits well enough. This isn't because they are not smart, it's because they don't realize how the suit should fit to be beneficial.


I completely agree with what you said here:

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For buying used...
-Learn what you NEED before investing in new. You can then get what you LIKE that fits your NEEDS.
-Keep pluggin' away...you WILL find what you need sooner or later.
-Don't get antsy and buy ill-fitting unless it's on the large side and you can have it easily tailored.
-Don't buy new for the wrong reasons. Looking cool falls a distant second to flying well.
-Get somone to act as an escrow for you. Many riggers will provide that service for you.

Good point raised above:
Cordura is your friend.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[NeedToJump 0]

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so "everything" to me means everthing that's actually functional.

This is what I was thinking as well. I should have done a better job of expressing that and clarifying what I think is functional instead of just saying "everything".

Bill, I agree with your four "functional" points.

For the goofy gripper size discussion, the grippers just need to be big enough to easily grab and hold onto. Anything within that size range is personal preference.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[skybytch 273]

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Inside leg grippers - needed for 4-way but not in general

Ever do a cat on something bigger than a 4 way? Inseam grippers are worthwhile for more than hard core 4 way jumping.

I'm with ya on the black thing though. Black may look great for the judges but it's hot and uncomfortable in the summer.

Best advice I can give the OP - buy a suit that fits you, learn to fly in it and expect to buy at least one more suit in the future. The best jumpers out there all own more than one jumpsuit. Why? Because the suit that works great for fast 4 way with your 210 pound buddies probably isn't the one that will work best when you're on the outside of a 30 way or trying to do a coach jump with a 105 pound female.

[popsjumper 2]

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Best advice I can give the OP - buy a suit that fits you, learn to fly in it and expect to buy at least one more suit in the future. The best jumpers out there all own more than one jumpsuit. Why? Because the suit that works great for fast 4 way with your 210 pound buddies probably isn't the one that will work best when you're on the outside of a 30 way or trying to do a coach jump with a 105 pound female.

WooooHooo! Good stuff, 'Bytch!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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...Getting tunnel coaching and talking to experienced RW people will help someone figure this (average fall-rate) out very quickly.

Very good advice. I'm sure the OP will do this prior to buying ANY jumpsuit, new OR used.

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Knowing if a suit fits properly or not is not a matter of being smart, it's knowing what parts of the fit are important.

I wasn't clear. That is exactly what I meant by being smart...the learning and knowing prior to buying, not the mental abilities.

Sounds like we are pretty much on the same page except for the new/used buying option.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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There's an awful lot of junk you can pay for on a jumpsuit.........

ouch - who wants all that crap

I SOOOOOO much wanted to say that but nay, lest I incite the 4-way competitors.


Good that you kept in mind the OP's needs at this point in his progression.

I'm just wondering why the OP hasn't yet piped in again....has he been overwhelmed by different opinions?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rehmwa 2]

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There's an awful lot of junk you can pay for on a jumpsuit.........

ouch - who wants all that crap

I SOOOOOO much wanted to say that but nay, lest I incite the 4-way competitors.

4-way competitors would say the same - gimmicks are gimmicks and usually requested by those hoping some fancy suit feature will fix something they actually need to train on instead. Those advocating those things are usually 'NOT' 4way types.

I don't see a lot of the 'gimmicks' being requested by good competitors - just the opposite. about 5 years ago, I knew someone deny booties to get the 'new' afterburners. They kept getting tossed 'feet over head' in formations when those things would accidently snatch air........

(booties, inside grippers, grippers that can be held easy enough, cordura where it wears on you, good fit assessed by someone that knows what they are doing - that's all)

colors discussions - that's all cosmetic, I don't care either. When someone says what to I need, I answer the "need" question. Fashion is "options" or "wants", not "need".

Good thread, still don't know why it's in rigging.....

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Good that you kept in mind the OP's needs at this point in his progression

and his needs are (hopefully) to advance skills in smaller formations and learn to use his booties and how to position himself and control himself. 4way is a great foundation for any all around jumper. If he wants to have airbaths and stick his tongue out at other jumpers and that's about it (and there is NOTHING wrong with that), then he wouldn't ask here. He could jump in any outfit. I recommend going to Fleetfarm and buying a 40 dollar coverall. Or just jump in tshirt and jeans/shorts

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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And your choices make it clear that you emphasize 4-way (or at least competitive skydiving) when you buy a jumpsuit.

{{{actually, I think we are all on the same page}}}


and your choices are equivalent to me telling a cameraman that wings are a pointless expense



[good 4way skills translates to all belly flying skills. In fact, I find it translates to freeflying also - and vice versa. I don't think there's much difference in the disciplines once you learn to just basically control airflow, it all applies everywhere]

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Some people like wild colors despite the fact that 4-way judges don't.

cosmetic - I don't care either way - it's easier to get suit discounts/sponsorships if the suit uses the bulk stock inventory of the maker (IMO)

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I can put on and take off my jumpsuit with my sneakers on...

I have no issues without zippers. You might want to talk to your suitmaker and have then redesign the knee joint

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Inside leg grippers - needed for 4-way but not in general

Completely disagree. 8way, big ways, "fun/boogie" dives. If not standard, they are usually a cheap thing to do for other jumpers.

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........(though one inside pocket is plenty).

so we agree - extra pockets are 'options'

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And of course big grippers (but not too big! ).

sure (It's harder for me to hold onto the 2" square type - I prefer the 2" or 1.5" rounds - in fact, I'm more concerned with the gripper material. A good firm foam is better for me than softies, or the nylon rope types that are too squishy) - when an oldtimer asks my wife to build the 'little' grippers he's talking about those tootsie rolls (0.5" diameter). It's for comfort and are absolutely useless for holding onto. She'll usually at that point recommend they buy a freefly suit as that is what they really want for RW (no booties, loose fit, no grippers, etc) - and that's fine - one can incorporate spandex into a freefly suit to make it fit snugger for slow fallers......I can turn points and fly mantis in my freefly suit, just not as well, but usually plenty good enough for 'fun' jumps.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pilotdave 0]

You would approve of my jumpsuit. Mostly black, inside leg grippers, pleated cordura booties (Bev's Deland Majik option), and real tight so I fall fast.
I'm surprised you don't recommend getting a jumpsuit covered in fake sponsor patches too... those help channel the airflow for better body control.

Dave

[rehmwa 2]

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I'm surprised you don't recommend getting a jumpsuit covered in fake sponsor patches too... those help channel the airflow for better body control.

We're working on it..... but the real ones - no patches without sponsorship - those are MUCH harder to get

edit: actually - if one were to buy the 'tootsie roll' gripper size, he could pull out the core (if there even is one - I know 3 jumpers right now that lost their cores on a gripper this size and didn't even know it) and then fill it with tootsie rolls.....hmmmm

you eliminate a need for an extra pocket, and have a good snack when landing out

edit edit:

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I finally got a camera suit with wings.

why did you waste money on wings again?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pilotdave 0]

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why did you waste money on wings again?

Suit was free... paid for by a sponsor. No patches though... custom embroidery and had the logo painted on our helmets. My intermediate class 4-way team had better sponsorship this year than some of the open teams I'm sure. Ahh, free jumps and jumpsuits... life is good.
Hopefully we actually make it to nationals in 08.
Dave

[rehmwa 2]

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My intermediate class 4-way team had better sponsorship this year than some of the open teams I'm sure.

we will be contacting you guys for advice

have a good holiday

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DougH 270]

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You would approve of my jumpsuit. Mostly black, inside leg grippers, pleated cordura booties (Bev's Deland Majik option), and real tight so I fall fast.
I'm surprised you don't recommend getting a jumpsuit covered in fake sponsor patches too... those help channel the airflow for better body control.

Dave

Yeah you fall fast alright... fast enough to pull me out of a formation.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[wildfan75 1]

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My intermediate class 4-way team had better sponsorship this year than some of the open teams I'm sure.

we will be contacting you guys for advice

have a good holiday

Bill--Maybe you could contact Kim at Skimmer Suits and see if she'll sponsor your team. That would take care of your new jumpsuits.

[rehmwa 2]

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My intermediate class 4-way team had better sponsorship this year than some of the open teams I'm sure.

we will be contacting you guys for advice

have a good holiday

Bill--Maybe you could contact Kim at Skimmer Suits and see if she'll sponsor your team. That would take care of your new jumpsuits.

Well, I am sleeping with one of her employees. (The things I do for my team)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[airdvr 210]

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You're getting a lot of "experienced RW" input which doesn't apply to your situation.

Why not? He's asking about an RW suit. Why wouldn't "experienced RW" input apply?

-Because he may well decide that freeflying is his thing and not RW.

Shhh...don'cha know we need some young'uns

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[popsjumper 2]

Dammit...yes, I deserved that boot in the ass. Thanks, sir! May I have another?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[vladydude 0]

Hi dude you should go check out Vertical Suits http://www.vericalsuits.com

They make quality and its fast delivery they have special for x-mas 15% off all custom orders.

They make a good R.W suit with all the options you may want.

Custom fit is good cause for sure you will be comfortable and it will perform how it should in the air.

[pilotdave 0]

http://www.verticalsuits.com/

By "they" you mean "you?" (or I guess it would be "I")
Dave

[popsjumper 2]

Advertising at its best.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[vladydude 0]

I mean they I mean the company Vertical Suits is a company its not me.


Thanks

[vladydude 0]

Hey buddy he asked i answered. I think custom fit suit is better then buying what ever out there. Its important, the fit for the best results. I advise people of what i think its best.

Thanks

[pilotdave 0]

I apologize for assuming that you are the Vlady from Canada mentioned at http://www.verticalsuits.com/about.html. There must be another Vlady that happens to own that company.

Dave