Rental Rigs

[drewcarp 0]

What are the best tips to ensure a rental rig is airworthy? Obviously, check that it has handles and 3 rings, pc pocket is tight. Any other things I can check for? I feel kinda dumb when they just hand me a rig and say "here ya go". and I proceed to jump it not knowing what the hell is in the bag or who packed it. Would it be impolite to ask to if I can watch it get packed? What are good things to look for and check? And yes I will ask my instructor but they are quite busy most of the time and here I will get info from many more people.
I thought about putting off training until I could afford my own gear and be able to maintain it to my standards but it doesn't really make sense $$ wise b/c I would only jump it 30 or so times and I have been told my DZ has good student gear, but how can I make sure without putting up the money for my own? Is it just kinda a leap of faith until you are around long enough to know what to look for? Just looking for some tools to make sure I know the condition of what's on my back.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[skybytch 273]

A gear check - which is something that you need to do regardless of who owns the rig you are jumping, and is also something that should be taught to you by your instructors long before you are signed off for self-supervision - should assure you that everything is good to go.

It's not dumb to ask what canopy is in the rig. It shouldn't really matter who packed it; many dz's keep no records of that so they may have no idea who packed it. You can certainly ask to watch it being packed, but if you're that worried about you may be better off learning to pack now so you can pack it yourself.

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And yes I will ask my instructor but they are quite busy most of the time and here I will get info from many more people.

You're paying an instructor to teach you. Ask questions. Good instructors love to answer questions; if they are too busy to spend the time required to answer at that moment they will direct you to someone else who isn't as busy. Anybody who is always too busy to answer a student's questions is probably not all that good of an instructor.

You'll get a lot of info here, but do remember that an awful lot of people here don't know what they are talking about. This very well could include me. Take everything you read here with a big ol' grain of salt.

[davelepka 4]

Look at it this way - even if you sat and watched the rig assembled, the reserve packed, and the main packed, would you really knwo what you're looking at?

Even then, what do you know about aircraft maintainence, and what your DZ does about it?

Furthermore, what do you know about the staff? Are they all qualified to be on staff? Do they hold the relevant certifications for what they are doing?

As you can see, there are alot of areas where you just have to trust in the DZ and how it's run. What you can do is educate yourself in these areas, and then make an informed choice about jumping at that DZ.

About the rig, stick with your standard gear check, learn to pack ASAP, and get your hands on your own gear once you have a license. Be present when your rig is assembled, and ask the rigger many questions about the assembly, and proper upkeep and regular maintainence. Pack your own main, and take the time to do it right.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I would posit that the greatest threat to the well being of student skydivers is NOT:

Gear
Instructor quality
Plane
Pilot

The greatest threat to the well being of student skydivers is ....

STUDENT SKYDIVERS!

This sport is not rocket science, but there are a few things students have to LEARN, and APPLY. The failure to learn &/or the failure to apply what is taught about how to skydive safely is the greatest risk you will face.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[hackish 8]

Just to agree with what others have already said, with 5 jumps on your profile any experienced packer can probably pack better than you... or me when I had 5 jumps.

I also notice your'e in the USA. That means the rig would have to have been packed by a rigger or under the supervision of one. Chances are pretty good that it's been properly packed. You can pretty much guarantee that the reserve was packed by a rigger.

I get a lot of comments from tandem clients when I'm working at the DZ... "Make sure you pack that thing right". Truth be told people have stuffed their canopy in paper bags and they still opened. They're designed to open. I wouldn't make a habit of that but rest assured a properly packed parachute has a relatively low chance of malfunctioning.

-Michael

[Andy9o8 2]

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I get a lot of comments from tandem clients when I'm working at the DZ... "Make sure you pack that thing right".

That's because most non-jumpers (and many early-student jumpers, until they become more familiar with the sport) mistakenly presume that the main reason for skydiving deaths and injuries is "unrecoverable" equipment malfunction, when in fact the most prevalent cause is jumper error of one kind or another (and in fact, that's always been the case, even back when gear was radically different than today).

I say this to support what others have said to the OP: the biggest risk to you is you, so focus first and foremost on that.

[tdog 0]

Just because I am a rigger and AFF instructor, don't believe me - and ask people with similar ratings in person.

However when I jump borrowed gear I:

NEVER JUMP SOMETHING UNLESS I KNOW EXACTLY why, what, where, how, when, who.... In AFF your instructors do this for you. Your first solo and on - you have to do it yourself.

1) Ask about the reserve (often times I packed it, so, this is easy, but anyone can ask the simple questions). Size, Make, Model, Wingloading, Last Pack Date, etc.

2) Look at the packing data card to make sure the AAD maintenance is in date and the packjob is in date.

3) Look at the reserve closing pin - seated about 3/4 of the way in, sealed.

4) Run the reserve rip cord up and down the housing to make sure it is free to be pulled (no rocks in housing).

5) Ask all the same questions about the main as the reserve.

6) Inspect the container and harness for no tears, fading of the colors of the fabric, loose stitching.

7) Inspect fit - a loose harness can kill.

8) Check of threes:

a) All three handles in place, working, and tightly attached to velcro.
b) All three straps a-ok
c) Three rings assembled correctly.

9) RSL - have one? Attached properly?

10) What kind of main deployment system... Throw out vs pull out. Tabs? Freefly handle?

11) Put on rig - touch handles, will it work with my body. Style of handles?

12) Collapsible Pilot Chute? If so, is it cocked?

13) Main Pin seated and bridle routed correctly? Closing flaps closed in right order (owners manual online if you don't know).

For a new skydiver I would add:

1) Pull the main PC, throw it on the ground. Make sure the pull feels natural.

2) Try cutting away once, get used to the "peal" of the cutaway handle. Have someone with experience watch the reassembly of the cutaway.

3) Try unseating and removing, but not pulling, the reserve handle. How does the velcro feel to get the handle out? What methods require the least effort to break the velcro - as velcro is definitely easy to remove in some directions and nearly impossible to remove in others.

[Baksteen 84]

No advice to add, I just want to compliment you for the fact that you are already trying to learn more about the gear you are jumping.
Do not hesitate to ask your instructors the questuions you have and keep up the good work.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[halorob 0]

Somebody packed me a nice lineover on a rental rig. I haven't used packers since! Plus I would feel bad making them pack my brand new canopy. That thing is slippery as an eel.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Somebody packed me a nice lineover on a rental rig.

You don't know that for sure. Every deployment is at best a controlled cluster-fuck.

[hackish 8]

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Somebody packed me a nice lineover on a rental rig. I haven't used packers since! Plus I would feel bad making them pack my brand new canopy. That thing is slippery as an eel.

I packed me a lineover once. Only thing is I know 100% for sure it was packed properly. Was just a weird opening where one side took a while to inflate and when it finally did there was a line over it. Sometimes shit happens with a properly packed canopy.

When I was the new kid on the block I'm happy I was made to feel that the rental rigs were carefully and properly packed so I wasn't afraid that the packers were incompetent and that it was likely to kill me.

-Michael

[half-a-greek 0]

From one noob to another, ASK QUESTIONS!!! your instructor are your best friends in this sense. If you understand the gear, it will let you focus on what you have to do during a skydive, rather than on your gear in a skydive.

[Scrumpot 1]

Ha! - Michael, there's no way you can tell me (and I'd believe it) that, even as a "noob" (that you're not still now? ) - that even with that "confidence" you now note, that you did not check EVERYTHING, probably twice, or even 3-4 times before you jumped it!

Heck - I know your personality a heck of a lot better than that not having even yet met you - just corresponding on here!

LOL.
Sorry. I just could not resist getting that out.

...Is it '09 season YET?

Blue Skies!
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[hackish 8]

No, scrum the point here is that a jumper with 1-2 jumps should trust that the main was packed correctly. Unless they pull a me and get their rigging ticket before their license I wonder if they would be qualified to know a good from a bad packjob from watching. I agree that gear checks are important but worrying that the packer didn't do their job correctly?

Obviously I'm a nitpicky bastard who stood around and asked all the questions nobody could answer until someone finally told me "if you want to know that why not go get your rigging ticket". So I did.

There is still 2 damn feet of snow on the ground. So no, the '09 season hasn't started yet. Hmmm. I wonder if there are any winter jumps going on in TO this weekend...

-Michael

[Scrumpot 1]

Man Michael, you have no sense of humor at all, do you? Oh well.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Andy9o8 2]

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the point here is that a jumper with 1-2 jumps should trust that the main was packed correctly. ...
... worrying that the packer didn't do their job correctly?

I already addressed this in Post #6: whuffos tend to mistakenly presume that most skydiving fatalities result from "chutes not opening" due to packing errors.

[hackish 8]

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Man Michael, you have no sense of humor at all, do you? Oh well.

I have a sense of humour. Sometimes it just does not translate well to the interweb. Some days my sarcasm is thick sometimes not

-Michael

[dorbie 0]

When I was just off AFF but without my A license I was handed a rental rig and the pilot chute was kinda stuffed in untidily with some fabric out. So I pulled it out and repacked it feeling pretty good about myself until vigilant AFFI pointed out as I was boarding that the foot of bridle hanging in a loop under my rig was unacceptable.

Still, nothing wrong with knowing the gear and doing a thorough gear check limited though it will be. If nothing else you'll learn something.

Even with your own gear you'll be trusting the diligence and skill of a rigger and the design & construction of your rig. Of course you could wait until you get your rigger's ticket before you commence your training.