Disconnected Skyhook

[chutingstar 1]

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I've always worried that if a main did get snagged on a camera helmet, it may break your neck as you cut away.

Are there any camera flyers out there who have stories to share about their main snagging on their helmet, and how they dealt with it? You hear about the possibility all the time but it doesn't seem to happen too often in real life.

My camera sight caught a main steering line hanging outside of a CRW jumper's rig upon exit. He held onto the plane as felt the pull from his back and I felt my head getting stretched toward the plane in freefall until SNAP and the sight broke off. The steering line sawed through his reserve container and my neck was sore. But we both survived.

Not exactly the same situation as a part of your own canopy, but I would think the part snagged would either break off or the helmet would come off your head (if possible) or your body would get broken. Or you could be hanging from your main by your helmet...and either cut the snag or eject the helmet with enough time to deploy your reserve before hitting the ground.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[bigway 4]

again, not sure about this but in the UK i think it is mandatory that you have a cutaway on your helmet. The only reason i am not sure was because i was an overseas jumper and the only one who seemed to be 'allowed' to not have one. I was also allowed to jump with one on my 'b' license because i had many mroe jumps than the 'c' license requirements, also 'allowed' to film my own cat-something dive.

I was under the impression it was mandatory but i also seemed to be allowed a different set of rules than the permanent uk jumpers during my years there.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[tdog 0]

Jumps on a skyhook rig: 1000
Jumps on borrowed gear: 10

Reserve rides on skyhook rig: 0
Reserve rides on borrowed gear: 1

And I always wanted to try my skyhook too...

(My reserve ride was a non-rsl rig too).

Bianuan,

You can have the RSL removed, or you can simply connect the RSL to the hard housings of the cutaway cable and just not have it connected. The Skyhook is designed to release in the case of a total malfunction, and by leaving it disconnected, you are fooling it into thinking you are having a total every time.

Me.... I am a rigger, an AFF instructor, and a pretty current skydiver (300+ fun jumps a year)... And, my next rig will have a skyhook too... Personal preference.

[diablopilot 2]

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maybe so but you would not buy a skyhook then.
What is the point in having something if you are not going to use it.

I know there are reasons to jump with a cypres turned off but i cant think of any at 200 jumps.

One reason is if you're doing a CRW jump. Or maybe a Camera jump.

I'll bet DSE doesn't want to jump Skyhook or RSL because he jumps camera. Same reason I won't other than tandems.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

There is nothing dangerous about jumping with a Skyhook installed, but the RSL shackle disconnected (and stowed away safely.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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I know there are reasons to jump with a cypres turned off but i cant think of any at 200 jumps.

It's not operating properly. (Not sure how true it was but I did hear a rumor that the suspected cause of a high Cypres fire at the Eloy boogie this year was that it hadn't been properly calibrating for the jumper. I can't imagine I'd leave that unit powered up if that were the case). But that's about the only reason I can think of at 200 jumps.

That's a reason to ground the rig. The way the FAR's read, the AAD MUST be functional, and maintained according to the manufacturer's instructions, or it's unairworthy.

That does not mean it must be switched on for every jump, but if it's defective, the rig cannot be jumped unless it's fixed or removed.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Not speaking for DSl but you will find that not many camera fliers would ever jump with a skyhook or any form of RSL.

I have a Skyhook on my Vector3 and have no issue wearing it when doing camera jumps. I also have one reserve ride that was skyhook deployed from a cutaway during spinning line twists under a Velocity.

And I don't buy the "caught on camera gear" argument for not having RSLs or Skyhooks. It won't matter if you have do or don't have an RSL or Skyhook if you cutaway a canopy that has some part of it partially wrapped around your helmet or camera gear. You've got bigger issues than whether or not the RSL/Skyhook deploys your reserve as you cutaway a main that is snagged on your helmet. You may spend the rest of your life trying to get that snag undone or cut off. It may be better to have as much material above your head when trying to deal with some type of snagged material, line or riser.

Mike

How often do you jump video? I can have my helmet off in less than 3 seconds from pulling the breakaway handle.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[chutingstar 1]

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How often do you jump video? I can have my helmet off in less than 3 seconds from pulling the breakaway handle.

Most of my jumps are video or AFF (with video) these days. And yes, ejecting the helmet is an option.

I was trying to explain that I believe Skyhooks/RSLs aren't necessarily an issue for camera jumps because removing the snag (which may involve the whole helmet) is the issue...most likely done before cutaway. Although a snag during cutaway is also possible, which does bring RSL/Skyhooks into the mix in possibly a negative manner...but weighing the possibilities, I'm still quite comfortable jumping my Skyhook-equipped rig when doing video.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[diablopilot 2]

I see. I'll disagree with you, but that's ok.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[chutingstar 1]

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I see. I'll disagree with you, but that's ok.

Awww...you're giving up on slamming my view way too easy.

ChutingStar.com

[diablopilot 2]

It's a dead horse man. Get me one that's still got a little fight left and I'll be flogging my self silly!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[riggerrob 643]

"The question that I must ask is if a skyhook is installed on a rig then does this not make the skyhook part of the TSO/ packing manual?? Meaning that this must be hooked up when the rig is packed. This means that the rigger is the only one whom can hook / unhook it from the system (the red lanyard onto the actual hook etc..."

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Correct!
The latest versions of the Vector and Javelin manual say that.
However, the Vector manual also show how to close the reserve with a simple (non-RSL) ripcord. So if you wanted to close a Skyhook-equipped Vector, without the Skyhook, you would need to buy a new ripcord.

Getting back to the original poster, any skydiver can disconnect any RSL (even a Skyhook RSL) from thier main riser.
With exception of water jumps, that is a mystery to me?????

[DSE 5]

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That's a reason to ground the rig. The way the FAR's read, the AAD MUST be functional, and maintained according to the manufacturer's instructions, or it's unairworthy.

That does not mean it must be switched on for every jump, but if it's defective, the rig cannot be jumped unless it's fixed or removed.

I guess I owe as I've broken my first FAR. Do I owe if I was ignorant, or is that a double penalty? Somewhat surprised the rigger's shack at Eloy didn't mention this.
I didn't realize that the problem with my AAD should have grounded the rig, or I would have grounded the rig. Well...thanks to Gordo and Sandy at Rigging Innovations, the rig is now airworthy again.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I know there are reasons to jump with a cypres turned off but i cant think of any at 200 jumps.

It's not operating properly. (Not sure how true it was but I did hear a rumor that the suspected cause of a high Cypres fire at the Eloy boogie this year was that it hadn't been properly calibrating for the jumper. I can't imagine I'd leave that unit powered up if that were the case). But that's about the only reason I can think of at 200 jumps.

That's a reason to ground the rig. The way the FAR's read, the AAD MUST be functional, and maintained according to the manufacturer's instructions, or it's unairworthy.

That does not mean it must be switched on for every jump, but if it's defective, the rig cannot be jumped unless it's fixed or removed.

Thanks for that clarification; I guess I'd not really thought about it and had believed that powering it off would be within the regulations (and at the very least it's a better choice than leaving it on if it's not calibrating properly, as this jumper found out the hard way after a long cold ride down from altitude).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[dragon2 2]

The snag may be your main, when indeed it shouldn't matter whether you have an rsl/skyhook or not, however after chopping if you are unstable the snag on your camera helmet may be your RESERVE. This is why I will not jump an rsl/skyhook for camera jumps, I need to be 100% stable before pulling my reserve. I've had plenty of reserve rides, some with camera, and yes most of the time an rsl and esp a skyhook will get the freebag out clean, cleaner than I can in the first second or so, but I will not take that chance with a big camera helmet on I will pull my reserve myself when I'm sure it'll clear. Of course since I jump camera i pull high so I do have that time. And I would never tell anyone to not jump an rsl/skyhook when they are not doing crw/skysurf/camerajumps/jumping teensy swoop canopies because I'm very pro-rsl for almost anyone. But not in the first 3 situations and anyone in the 4rth can certainly decide for themselves

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[TheSecret 0]

Would you consider your choice common among camera flyers? If you never jumped camera would you have an RSL?

Just wondering.

Life is good

[USPA 0]

Well, the advantage of skyhook with camera jumping is, that the skyhook system pulls aways the lines and freebag from your helmet. (look at the video's)

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[dragon2 2]

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Well, the advantage of skyhook with camera jumping is, that the skyhook system pulls aways the lines and freebag from your helmet. (look at the video's)

Yes, and I know there are cameramen jumping with a skyhook. However I have an Atom so in my case the argument is moot anyway.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[lilchief 1]

Jumps on a non-skyhook rig: 442
Jumps on a skyhook rig: 15

Reserve rides on non-skyhook: 1 (PCIT)
Reserve rides on skyhook rig: 1 (spinning main jan 12)

snooze you loose

haha

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[diablopilot 2]

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Would you consider your choice common among camera flyers? If you never jumped camera would you have an RSL?

Just wondering.

Professional camera flyers generally seem to abide by the long standing habit of not using an RSL. Sport jumpers who jump with cameras seem to be about 50/50 these days.

If I did not jump camera at all, I would jump with an RSL.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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That's a reason to ground the rig. The way the FAR's read, the AAD MUST be functional, and maintained according to the manufacturer's instructions, or it's unairworthy.

That does not mean it must be switched on for every jump, but if it's defective, the rig cannot be jumped unless it's fixed or removed.

I guess I owe as I've broken my first FAR. Do I owe if I was ignorant, or is that a double penalty? Somewhat surprised the rigger's shack at Eloy didn't mention this.
I didn't realize that the problem with my AAD should have grounded the rig, or I would have grounded the rig. Well...thanks to Gordo and Sandy at Rigging Innovations, the rig is now airworthy again.

No worries.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bianuan 0]

So can the RSL part be used without the skyhook hooked up, as well being on the other side to a normal RSL?
(Apologies for my non technical speak I am not a rigger)
I have seen all the discussions on various threads about this, whilst my reserve was being packed I felt the force needed to pull the reserve out with the skyhook connected, in a non terminal pull it may imply that it may take a bit more to get the reserve out. (say a low exit in an aeroplane emergency - although i note the comments indicating that it should do the opposite)
Another point may be that there is a lot more stuff in the reserve container - closing with the pilot chute etc, it did seem that there were more bits in there, which may equal more to go wrong.
I am returning to the sport after a year and a half off, and am currently updating my kit.
These are my viewpoints based on the little information I currently understand, skyhooks do not seem to be widely used in the UK. I'm not aware of any incidents here with jumpers of my level, in that a skyhook would have been useful.
Thank you all for all the comments and viewpoints, i have taken note.

Ann

[AndyMan 7]

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You couldn't pay me to jump with a Skyhook, nor an RSL. Yes, I've jumped with my Cypres off, as there are occasional reasons for that, too.

I'm actually quite surprised at your statement. I had thought consensus had changed considerably in the last few years.

I'm a camera flyer, and my setups are often big and bulky.

Either with or without an RSL, a main entanglement with a camera helmet must be cleared before that main is cutaway. Cutting away a main that's still attached to your helmet is a recipe for an instant broken neck. Jumpers with broken necks can't open reserves themselves.

Dealing with the entanglement before cutting away bypasses any issues with a any kind of RSL, and keeps your neck healthy.

While I don't have any RSL on either rig right now, a SkyHook is definitely an option for my next rig.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[labrys 0]

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So can the RSL part be used without the skyhook hooked up, as well being on the other side to a normal RSL?
(Apologies for my non technical speak I am not a rigger)
I have seen all the discussions on various threads about this, whilst my reserve was being packed I felt the force needed to pull the reserve out with the skyhook connected, in a non terminal pull it may imply that it may take a bit more to get the reserve out. (say a low exit in an aeroplane emergency - although i note the comments indicating that it should do the opposite)

The Skyhook is a type of RSL. If you have a Skyhook, you have an RSL. Make sense? You can't seperate the 2 because they are one thing.

I can't see how a Skyhook (properly installed) would have any impact on force needed to pull your reserve handle one way or the other.

I'm a sport camera jumper with 2 unplanned Skyhook deployed reserve rides and the thing functioned perfectly both times. I'm really comfortable with it.

Owned by Remi #?

[DSE 5]

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You couldn't pay me to jump with a Skyhook, nor an RSL. Yes, I've jumped with my Cypres off, as there are occasional reasons for that, too.

I'm actually quite surprised at your statement. I had thought consensus had changed considerably in the last few years.

I'm a camera flyer, and my setups are often big and bulky.

Either with or without an RSL, a main entanglement with a camera helmet must be cleared before that main is cutaway. Cutting away a main that's still attached to your helmet is a recipe for an instant broken neck. Jumpers with broken necks can't open reserves themselves.

Dealing with the entanglement before cutting away bypasses any issues with a any kind of RSL, and keeps your neck healthy.

While I don't have any RSL on either rig right now, a SkyHook is definitely an option for my next rig.

_Am

I've seen two videos of camera helmet entanglements and in one of them, the camera flyer wasn't aware the helmet was entangled until he cut away his main.
As mentioned previously, it boils down to your own feeling, and your awareness of your choices and the intentionality behind those choices. I don't know that there is a "right" or "wrong" to either choice, which is the point I was making earlier. Some folks probably do feel I'm a moron/stupid/whichever because I choose not to use a Skyhook/RSL system. I'm sure some folks think I'm a moron because I elect to not eat most vegetables, nor do I work out every day.