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DSE 5
QuoteFirst of all, this incident occurred with a single unit and is not a widespread problem, or at least has not been reported as one.
It also happened to me, same day. Difference is, Margaret (Eloy riggers shack) recommended I not jump it for 14 hours so I knew the unit was off. Unit had been working fine each of the previous days.
I don't know if it happened to more than just two units, or if it was more widespread and others aren't members here.
I'm a little surprised that the manufacturer hasn't contacted me after I sent them (and SSK) a letter outlining the experience.
Second:
QuoteFirst of all, this incident occurred with a single unit and is not a widespread problem, or at least has not been reported as one. The part I find truly APPALLING is that this unit was said to have had SEVERAL startup problems the day before, before appearing to give it up altogether before the jump where the misfire occurred.Continuing to use any unit that's exhibiting an inexplicable startup problem is morally indefensible.
This problem exhibited itself in 2 instances with different people at the same boogie and has been sporadically reported here by others online. It is my understanding that the person who had the Cypres fire experienced the start up problems the day before the incident. The next day she did not turn the unit on and thought she was jumping with her Cypres turned off, as there was no read out in the display, this is when the Cypres malfunctioned and fired shortly after clearing the hill while she was in a 3 way head down circle. I've seen the video of it and I can tell you that it was definitely violent and I am glad she wasn't hurt, I don't think a bigger person would have fared as well. I am also glad that the second person who had this problem did not jump his rig that day or the following day.
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING
QuoteThey pushed the button and nothing happened (no LED/no nothing). To this person it felt like they did not have a cypres.
AT that point the unit CLEARLY has a defect.
Not only does common sense say don't jump it, but the law (FAR's) say so as well.
Glad your friend is ok. She made a mistake, possibly through ignorance. No blame is needed, simply a lesson learned by the ENTIRE community.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
badlock 0
Quote
Yet serveral users here on dz.com has reported such an error, but because they didn't want to jump without a cypres, we don't know what happend. What we do know now, is the unit cannot be trusted when this happens AND you can't see it (you have to know it).
If I remember right, there's a big difference:
The units you speak about had the problem that the display turned off but the units still were useable (they could turned on and off). But in this case the unit gave any vital signs (no LED activity).
Quote
Further more, again you state this will happen to all AAD's, which is only speculation on your side.
I didn't say it will happen to all AAD's. I said, it CAN happen. I spoke about a chance. A windows PC can crash and a Mac can do it the same way. The point is that you can't produce something and believe that it is absolutely impossible that it will produce malfunctions.
The chain can break on every link. If comparable products have comparable components (links) than there's a realistic chance that some units of every product will break down on similiar ways.
***
BTW this is the second time cypres 2 has problems with it's display and the second time AirTec doesn't find a recall nescessary. At least the first time they could fix it in the new units...
I would need more technical details to get a opinion if Airtecs behaviour was right. .
Maybe you're right in this point. But the problem that is discussed here is another.
And as some others here explained: The big problem was that it was known that the rig wasn't grounded even it was known that
- it produced strange errors
- it didn't turned on / gave any feedback when the button was pushed.
So the major difference between the example you brought into the discussion and this example here is that there was clear that - as someone told before - the unit wasn't ready to fly.
There was a noticeable difference between these two scenarios. Noticable for everyone with an IQ above room temperature.
In my opinion its a no-brainer that you shouldn't jump a gear that isn't 100% perfect fine.
Thats a safety principle.
A principle that held the Space Shuttle down (for example).
Don't be a Lutz!
USPA 0
Quoteit didn't turned on / gave any feedback when the button was pushed.
This happens quite often frankly, although untill now, it was either a "wrong push" or a stiff "window". Sometime people who are on a boarding call just think, whatever, just a hop and pop, I'll do it after this jump. This is not a rare occurance and is not in disagreement with the manual.
Furthermore, it isn't "household" behavior for most people to watch the countdown, you turn it on, do the rest of the check, or do something else and when it's time to jump, to check if it reads "0".
feuergnom 28
QuoteFurthermore, it isn't "household" behavior for most people to watch the countdown, you turn it on, do the rest of the check, or do something else and when it's time to jump, to check if it reads "0".
again: RTFM. if you (the general you, not to be taken on a personal level, you know) don't want to play by the (really simple) rules, STFU if you wake up in a place where you didn't want to be
sometimes ignorance is bliss, most of the times it's just a royal pain in the you know what
dudeist skydiver # 666
USPA 0
1) Manual states nowhere you have to watch the countdown.
2) Manual states numbers appearing, unless they are error numbers, have no meaning to the users.
3) Manual states, that after an error, the unit will shutdown.
4) Manual explicitly states, if the start-up failes, simply try again.
5) Manual implies the unit will only be "on" if the display displays "0"
6) Manual implies unit will not fire, when unit isn't on.
Like I said before, alot of trouble is caused by people not RTFM, but this is not it. (check statement 4 (page 18 of manual))
Good stuff.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteQuoteit didn't turned on / gave any feedback when the button was pushed.
This happens quite often frankly, although untill now, it was either a "wrong push" or a stiff "window". Sometime people who are on a boarding call just think, whatever, just a hop and pop, I'll do it after this jump. This is not a rare occurance and is not in disagreement with the manual.
Furthermore, it isn't "household" behavior for most people to watch the countdown, you turn it on, do the rest of the check, or do something else and when it's time to jump, to check if it reads "0".
...and hopefully this SB and Mike's posting will help change that attitude and "household" behavior.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
riggerrob 643
By mentioning error codes, the engineers "implied" that you should watch the entire start-up routine.
I never followed the "household" ... always watched the entire start-up routine ... and now it seems that my silly habits were better than "household."
badlock 0
Quote
1) Manual states nowhere you have to watch the countdown.
2) Manual states numbers appearing, unless they are error numbers, have no meaning to the users.
C'mon, that's hairsplitting. Even im combination with the second point.
My opinion: There can everytime occur an error that isn't described in ANY manual.
So, the use of the brain is necessary to make the whole thing faile-safe.
If I see something that I can't explain by knowledge or the manual, I ask someone who should know it (Rigger, manufacturer...).
It's simply not woth the jump.
If I'm not 100% convinced that my gear is OK I don't jump out of airplanes.
Don't be a Lutz!
This is just a reaction to your "morally indefensible" comment. So easy to throw that out when you where not even there.
-Trunk
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