A license jumping camera....

[Bob_Church 7]

"So would you prefer 201? Or maybe 197?

You know perfectly well that those numbers are chosen because we humans have a fascination with zeros. And more of one when there is a '1' in front of those zeros.

200 is the old requirement for a D license. It's also the minimum for wingsuit and camera.

It's a good place for that too, IMO. Enough jumps that some stuff has become relatively habitual. Gear checks, exit protocols, various other stuff.

Enough skills and experience to start adding extra stuff, stuff that has the potential to be a distraction.

But, as seen in this thread, others have differing opinions.
"


Off topic, but there's even a term for it. Proxy.

[billvon 3,070]

>Once in the plane, camera does not exist. Once door opens, I push one button. . .
>.in case of any entanglements, I will break off the camera and toss it.

There are two contradictions there. Clearly the camera DOES exist for you; you operate it and have changed your emergency procedures to deal with it. (Which is pretty straightforward; you cannot, and should not, ignore the equipment you are jumping with.)

[mbohu 77]

Reading through this thread as a new jumper, I do get one main impression that I was not aware of previously:

It seems that the "problem" with cameras is not so much a specific hazard (entanglement, etc.) that the equipment itself poses, but it is the (potential) distraction and therefore additional complexity it adds to a jump. I did not think of this previously.
This also means that what role a camera really might or might not have played in an incident might not at all be reflected in the incident report.

[evh 22]

mbohu

Reading through this thread as a new jumper, I do get one main impression that I was not aware of previously:

It seems that the "problem" with cameras is not so much a specific hazard (entanglement, etc.) that the equipment itself poses, but it is the (potential) distraction and therefore additional complexity it adds to a jump. I did not think of this previously.
This also means that what role a camera really might or might not have played in an incident might not at all be reflected in the incident report.

You are very right about this, and this can not be repeated enough.

[tikl68 6]

I jump with a camera and have filmed tandems, outside video of 4 way teams, inside video when I am load organizing, and video for CRW dawgs since 2006. I am curious how you would be able to have the presence of mind during a stressful event like a emergency situation, and the valuable time to "break" the camera off, or to "undo the helmet" if it is entangled with a main canopy. I have a cutaway handle for the chin cup on my helmet. You might want to rethink your"camera EP's" just my 2 cents.

[Skwrl 56]

Meanee

Once in the plane, camera does not exist. Once door opens, I push one button. No matter what happens (beep, no beep, whatever), camera does not exist.

It's a normal jump, as far as I am concerned. . . camera footage was great

Those two things don't add up to me. Either

- your footage is actually crap - well, maybe it's useful to show to wuffos "hey, look! I'm a skydiver!";

- you're actually paying more attention to it than you claim that you are; or

- you don't know what good footage looks like.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[DJL 235]

Quote

I also agreed with myself, in case of any entanglements, I will break off the camera and toss it. Or I will undo the helmet and toss it. Sure, it's expensive, But I can afford a new one if I need to buy it.

Statements like that are why there are "arbitrary" timelines. Hopefully by the time someone hits 200 jumps they will (through exact situations like your statement) learn that the idea of breaking a camera off of your head or undoing the helmet in the middle of an entanglement is a bit naive.

Camera flying is a skill with inherent and unique issues to address. 200 jumps doesn't mean, "Ok, I can slap on a go-pro now."

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Meanee 1]

Skwrl

***Once in the plane, camera does not exist. Once door opens, I push one button. No matter what happens (beep, no beep, whatever), camera does not exist.

It's a normal jump, as far as I am concerned. . . camera footage was great

Those two things don't add up to me. Either

- your footage is actually crap - well, maybe it's useful to show to wuffos "hey, look! I'm a skydiver!";

- you're actually paying more attention to it than you claim that you are; or

- you don't know what good footage looks like.

You are not wrong here. My footage may be crap and I only took it twice on a solo jump. I focus more on my own flying than pointing camera at others. I liked the video I took. So did others.

And I actually held on to my principle of not paying any attention to the camera after door is open.

I am sure better camera work will come with experience, but nobody really wakes up one day and thinks "Ok, I am experienced and my footage is awesome" so I am ok with shitty videos in the beginning.

[Meanee 1]

DJL

Quote

I also agreed with myself, in case of any entanglements, I will break off the camera and toss it. Or I will undo the helmet and toss it. Sure, it's expensive, But I can afford a new one if I need to buy it.

Statements like that are why there are "arbitrary" timelines. Hopefully by the time someone hits 200 jumps they will (through exact situations like your statement) learn that the idea of breaking a camera off of your head or undoing the helmet in the middle of an entanglement is a bit naive.

Camera flying is a skill with inherent and unique issues to address. 200 jumps doesn't mean, "Ok, I can slap on a go-pro now."

My camera is not on a bolted-on mount. It's using curved GoPro helmet mount with double-sided tape. I don't think it's out of this world to be able to break it off.

[billvon 3,070]

>I don't think it's out of this world to be able to break it off.

Have you tried it?

[Meanee 1]

billvon

>I don't think it's out of this world to be able to break it off.

Have you tried it?

Nope, will order a new mount and give it a try. Don't think double-sided tape will be a huge challenge to adrenaline-powered human.

[DJL 235]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvOzOBRDGARIsAICjxocw8E1bvsg_a9vDSNg_iJWQJWFWOEPnHE8MbUxJ5rpPPk1WaoUbJyUaApPNEALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=1061458

Like this? Yup, that's the most snaggy worst mount you could possibly use. You can do this without having to resort to ripping things off your head. There are WAY better mounts out there.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Meanee 1]

DJL

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvOzOBRDGARIsAICjxocw8E1bvsg_a9vDSNg_iJWQJWFWOEPnHE8MbUxJ5rpPPk1WaoUbJyUaApPNEALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=1061458

Like this? Yup, that's the most snaggy worst mount you could possibly use. You can do this without having to resort to ripping things off your head. There are WAY better mounts out there.

Nope, not using that. Using Schier clamp. Definitely not snag-free, but there's no huge knob for lines to snag on. And the lever that comes with it moves, so force of any snag will allow it to turn and release the snag.

Not saying that it's guaranteed not to snag, but it's better than default "black screw" thing that GoPro has.

Edit: I am fully aware that I am putting myself at higher risk, and I made my peace with it. But I also believe that the 200 is not some magic number that will protect me from snags and other hazards.

[DJL 235]

There's a great video that goes over various types of camera mounts. Trying to find it. Anyone? I think Mike McGowan put it together?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DJL 235]

That Schier Clamp is pretty terrible too. Really, you don't have to have a big-old snag hazard on your head. Look: http://www.chutingstar.com/cookie-g3-gopro-roller-mount BAM, no snags. It's that easy for $100.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Meanee 1]

DJL

That Schier Clamp is pretty terrible too. Really, you don't have to have a big-old snag hazard on your head. Look: http://www.chutingstar.com/cookie-g3-gopro-roller-mount BAM, no snags. It's that easy for $100.

I was eyeing that one, but I am madly in love with my KISS helmet.

If there's a way to get a roller mount on that, I'd buy a second KISS just for that. I use my current helmet in a tunnel, so drilling and perma-mounting this thing would not be that great.

[bibliwho 1]

DJL

There's a great video that goes over various types of camera mounts. Trying to find it. Anyone? I think Mike McGowan put it together?

Norman Kent's Dangers of Being a Hero maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn2BCmnDUUM

[Remster 30]

Meanee

***>I don't think it's out of this world to be able to break it off.

Have you tried it?

Nope, will order a new mount and give it a try. Don't think double-sided tape will be a huge challenge to adrenaline-powered human.

I had to replace the mount on my helmet this weekend. It took me about 2-3 minutes with a screwdriver to get the mount adhesive off.

Remster

[Bob_Church 7]

One really nice thing about the GoPro is that whether you use it in video mode or sequential photo mode it will shoot unattended for long enough that you don't HAVE to mess with it. You can start it recording on the ground and shut if off after landing without a problem.

[Meanee 1]

Remster

******>I don't think it's out of this world to be able to break it off.

Have you tried it?

Nope, will order a new mount and give it a try. Don't think double-sided tape will be a huge challenge to adrenaline-powered human.

I had to replace the mount on my helmet this weekend. It took me about 2-3 minutes with a screwdriver to get the mount adhesive off.


I don't doubt it. But I am sure you were trying to be careful. If you were in situation where you don't give a damn about equipment, and you had a nice lever (your camera), I don't think it will take this long.

I will give it a shot later, when I order and receive few of these helmet mounts.

[tikl68 6]

I am aware that adrenaline takes your strength to a whole other level. Thats not my point. During a stressful situation, with sensory overload due to information coming in faster than you are used to processing it, to have the mindset not to mention the TIME, to reach up and try to break something off your helmet, that is probably entangled in a ball of shit of lines, if it has not rendered you unconscious due to breaking your neck,or pinned your head to one side or the other, is optimistic at best. Again I have done video for CRW Dawgs since 2006 and have filmed many a wrap, and I can tell you their hands were full, WITH OUT A CAMERA ON THEIR HELMET!!!!! You may not do CRW in your imagined emergency scenario, but having your own parachute snagged and wadded up with your camera IMHO will be more than you bargained for.

[DJL 235]

You need to watch the video by Norman Kent. One of his great points is the comparison to a dedicated videographer's helmet and the fact that they're dedicating that jump to the care required to do it safely. What YOU are doing is putting a snag hazard on your head, getting into the mix of a skydive and then saying it's not a big deal because you're going to pretend like it's not there. There ARE an appreciable number of entanglements causes by a Go-Pro and there have been fatalities. One of them was from someone in the landing pattern who got a control line stuck on his Go-Pro as he made a turn.

As for tearing it off your head, maybe you can, maybe you can't. Remember, your leverage is entirely different when you're in the air, especially with a bunch of lines attached to the camera. Let's say that line is wrapped around your camera and your foot pinning your chin to your chest. Which way are you going to pull it or push it to get it off your head. This isn't rocket science and plenty of people have come before you. Your camera needs to be as snag free as possible and you need to have a helmet release.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Lawndarter 3]

Meanee

I was eyeing that one, but I am madly in love with my KISS helmet.

Grellfab chin mount is pretty much the solidest answer when it comes to KiSS helmets - simple cutaway and you can take it off when you get into the tunnel. That said, everywhere seems to be backordered on them right now.

[evh 22]

Meanee

. If you were in situation where you don't give a damn about equipment, and you had a nice lever (your camera), I don't think it will take this long.

You are wrong.

There is a video somewhere (cant look for it right now) of a guy trying to do this under canopy. He failed.

[DJL 235]

evh

***. If you were in situation where you don't give a damn about equipment, and you had a nice lever (your camera), I don't think it will take this long.

You are wrong.

There is a video somewhere (cant look for it right now) of a guy trying to do this under canopy. He failed.

And a lever against what? You chinstrap in your throat is what you're working against and that doesn't work very well. Meanee, try putting your helmet on and see how much force you can exert against it. Hell, just try doing it in your chair against your own head because that's even lower on the lever arm you're pushing against which is your own neck, it's not much at all.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher