Squeak 17 #1 February 22, 2008 QuoteQuote I wouldn't recommend the Stiletto for someone with your jump numbers... just my two cents. But for what it's worth, you can't deep-flare a Stiletto as it has a quick stall point. From a post Billy Vance made. I have 400 jumps (not a lot by any measure) on my Stiletto 135 loaded at about 1.55, I have never had any issues with a full deep flare. Any one (Billy??) want to elaborate on the above quote?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #2 February 22, 2008 Guessing here: quite often brake lines are set too short (esp on older PD canopies it seems) or have shrunk ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #3 February 22, 2008 QuoteGuessing here: quite often brake lines are set too short (esp on older PD canopies it seems) or have shrunkbilly's referecne was to stilettos in general. I have never had an issue with flareing my canopy to full arms length. If fact i am unaware of any Stielttos having flaring issues. They do have very short recovery arcs compared to newer designed canopiesYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilchief 1 #4 February 22, 2008 Same here. Stiletto 135 at 1.6, never had any problems with landings or long spots, even with the lineset being old and worn. The canopy has a total of 800 jumps, I've got some 80-ish jumps on the canopy"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci www.lilchief.no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #5 February 22, 2008 Quotebilly's referecne was to stilettos in general. Was it, or was it in reference to the stilettos he's jumped? Maybe he's only jumped ones with short brake lines. I've got 1000's of jumps on stilettos, most at 2.0-ish, and always thought the onset of the stall was very predictable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyblu3 0 #6 February 22, 2008 I suppose I can comment here. I jump a beat up, used Stiletto 150. I have recently put a brand new lineset on it and I can vouch that with the brakes set at the manufactureres recommeded setting it requires some effort to stall. You wont stall the canopy accidentally by over flaring. At least with the brakes set as they are. If you factor in wear & tear and shrinkage then the brake lines get shorter and anything can happen. However, that goes for all canopies and not just the Stiletto. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #7 February 22, 2008 QuoteI have 400 jumps on my Stiletto 135 loaded at about 1.55, I have never had any issues with a full deep flare. Yep, sounds like you have gotten the timing right. I load mine at about 1.9 to one, and at the end of a swoop when it has slowed down and the rate of descent is increasing it will stall if I give it that extra pull down into "deep brakes". My steering lines are not lengthened to accommodate front riser manipulation, but are "taught" in full flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 February 22, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I wouldn't recommend the Stiletto for someone with your jump numbers... just my two cents. But for what it's worth, you can't deep-flare a Stiletto as it has a quick stall point. From a post Billy Vance made. I have 400 jumps (not a lot by any measure) on my Stiletto 135 loaded at about 1.55, I have never had any issues with a full deep flare. Any one (Billy??) want to elaborate on the above quote? I don't presume to speak on Billy's behalf, but what I gleaned from that is "deeply braked" maneuvers, as the threshold between flight and stall is quick/not predictable. As for full flare on landing...love those Stiletto landings...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #9 February 22, 2008 QuoteQuotebilly's referecne was to stilettos in general. Was it, or was it in reference to the stilettos he's jumped? Maybe he's only jumped ones with short brake lines. I've got 1000's of jumps on stilettos, most at 2.0-ish, and always thought the onset of the stall was very predictable. the quote in the OP is verbatim from Billys post, so use your own reading comprehension skills to figure that outYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 February 22, 2008 The quote doesn't clearly indicate either way. My best guess is that it is limited to his experience with stilettos he has jumped, based on the fact that I haven't heard stilettos described that way before. Have you heard anyone else describe a stiletto in this way? Most people would say a spectre opens soft, leading me to believe that all spectres open soft. If one guy says you can't deep flare a stiletto, it leads to believe that his experience may be exclusive to that jumper or that single canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #11 February 22, 2008 Quote way before. Have you heard anyone else describe a stiletto in this way? . Which is Clearly why i posted this thread to begin with, to elicit opinions from others experiences. Because as I stated my 400 jumps are minimal at best, however i too have only been around for 5 years, the canopy has been around a lot longer thanthat. I have heard from many people that Stilettos "Spin up" all the time. I have NEVER had this happen, nor has anyone i know who currently jumps a Stiletto, So are Stilettos Spinettos?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #12 February 22, 2008 Quote I have heard from many people that Stilettos "Spin up" all the time. I have NEVER had this happen, nor has anyone i know who currently jumps a Stiletto, So are Stilettos Spinettos? If you don't watch your body position at pulltime, yeah they can spin up. I'm thinking this is a leftover from when the stiletto was one of the first hp canopies and people didn't know how to handle opening, and/or people jumping stilettos too soon in their jumping career with ditto problem. I only have a few jumps on stiletto's myself, the first was a h&p with a pilotchute in tow for a bit, result loads of linetwists but a straight and still on heading flying stiletto ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #13 February 22, 2008 I should have put a caveat to my statement because all of my stilleto jumps were on borrowed gear. I'm used to jumping Triathlons which are a totally different animal. I only have maybe 12 Stilleto jumps, but the one I jumped during a 100 way event scared me. Nothing bad happened but when I flared for landing, I had a nice tip-toe touchdown, then the Stilleto slammed the ground behind me just a mere split second later. WHAP! It did that a few times. Then I learned to swoop it a little bit more without deep flaring it."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 February 22, 2008 Sounds like your borrowed canopy had the control lines set kind of short. I jumped a Stiletto for some time and I never had a problem flying around in pretty deep brakes.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #15 February 22, 2008 Quote Sounds like your borrowed canopy had the control lines set kind of short. I jumped a Stiletto for some time and I never had a problem flying around in pretty deep brakes. You're probably right. I jumped 4 different stilettos and that one was the only one that did it. Freaked me out though. Those two months in 1997 between the time my gear got stolen to getting my new gear was REALLY interesting! The scary part was at the event where I jumped that problem Stiletto, the guy loaning me his rig had two rigs that looked alike. He handed me one of them at the start of the event, then 5 minutes later came back and told me, wrong one! Use this one... I asked why... He said the first one had a Nova in it. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #16 February 22, 2008 >Any one (Billy??) want to elaborate on the above quote? Smaller canopies stall at a more shallow point than larger canopies. Canopies with shrunken brake lines stall at a more shallow point. People with longer arms/tighter harnesses/longer risers stall at a more shallow point. There are a lot of variables. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #17 February 22, 2008 Quote But for what it's worth, you can't deep-flare a Stiletto as it has a quick stall point. There are alot of posts on this forum to be concidered "Talking out their Ass".....www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #18 February 22, 2008 Quote Quote But for what it's worth, you can't deep-flare a Stiletto as it has a quick stall point. There are alot of posts on this forum to be concidered "Talking out their Ass"..... I already put in my caveat. Obviously I was jumping a out of trim out line-set on that one. I managed to land just fine, but having that canopy slam the ground behind me so quickly freaked me out. Just my own personal experience."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #19 February 22, 2008 QuoteI have NEVER had this happen, nor has anyone i know who currently jumps a Stiletto, So are Stilettos Spinettos? Nope. I never had one spin anywhere on me, and never had to chop one. It even opened straight when I popped an 'A' line a few times. It landed fine without an 'A' line as well. I do think it's a left over 'urban myth' from when Stilettos were newer to the market. With a big retarded F-111 7 cell, you can unstow the brakes, and pump them during the snivel to get the slider down, and when those canopies got old, you almost had to. Put that jumper under a snivelly Stiletto, and who knows what they'll do. Unstow the brakes, and monkey around? Maybe. Pull on risers, or do a little dance in the harness? Could be. Anyway you look at it, if you don't sit still for a minute, and let it open, you could get it to do something funky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #20 February 22, 2008 Quote Quote Quote But for what it's worth, you can't deep-flare a Stiletto as it has a quick stall point. There are alot of posts on this forum to be concidered "Talking out their Ass"..... Quote I already put in my caveat. Obviously I was jumping a out of trim out line-set on that one. I managed to land just fine, but having that canopy slam the ground behind me so quickly freaked me out. Just my own personal experience. I read your caveat But with only 12 jumps on something, why would anyone even think of putting out such a blanket statement on something? www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #21 February 22, 2008 I put 500 jumps or so on a Stiletto, loaded at around 1.5 - I never had any problem at all with the flare. In fact, I loved the flare. I could pop it up at the end if I wanted to. The flare was my favorite aspect of the Stiletto. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
