LONG closing loop

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

In the March 2008 issue of Parachutist is an interesting photo. The photo is on the lower left side of page 20. It is a photo from the US Collegiate National competition. This photo shows a belly flying RW team in freefall.

On one of the rigs in that photo a really long main closing loop and the grommet on the bottom flap of the main container are visible.

My first thought was... that the loop was so long that there might not be enough tension to keep the pin secure until deliberate deployment.

However, upon closer examination... it looks like the main container is REALLY full. I wonder if the main canopy is too big for the container. In this case, I guess the loop tension might be sufficient.

The more I thought about this, the more worried I became. If the bottom flap of the main container is so mis-aligned that the grommet is visible... does that create the risk that a throw-out bridle might become trapped under the corner of the main bottom flap? I am thinking of that portion of the bridle between the PC and the pin. If the bridle got trapped, I imagine that could result in a PC in tow malfunction.

Those of you with more knowledge and experience... Is this long closing loop truly a problem?

Thanks for your feedback.

Blue Skies!

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

In the March 2008 issue of Parachutist is an interesting photo. The photo is on the lower left side of page 20. It is a photo from the US Collegiate National competition.

Attached: the photo in question.

[peregrinerose 0]

It looks like the rig of the guy above that one has the same closing looop configuration.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PhreeZone 20]

The Talon's are really full. Not all rigs are designed with the grommets made to stack on top of each other also

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

Talon? Looks like a V3 to me. They're stuffing large "old-fart" ( ) accuracy canopies in there too.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[blackout 0]

looks like 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag to me

[Reginald 0]

Quote

Talon? Looks like a V3 to me. They're stuffing large "old-fart" ( ) accuracy canopies in there too.

Nope, not a V3.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Spizzzarko 0]

Those are Talon rigs. The USAF academy uses those for the Cadets. They also use classic accuracy canopies for the mains on most of their jumps. The closing loop is not to long on that rig and there is plenty of tension on the pin.

[Fledgling 0]

While there may be tension on the pin the loop is still too long. If you look closely you can even make out the binding tape at the edge of the bottom flap. If you need your loop to be so long that you can not close your container correctly you should really think about the size canopy you are trying to stuff in there. If you need such a large canopy for your skill level then you should consider jumping a rig that it will actually fit into.

[dumstuntzz 0]

speaking of LONG closing loops... some years ago i was repacking a racer reserve and noticed the main closing loop was like 14 '' long(not fingertrapped either) .this loop was SO long the d bag could fit thru it ( yes i tried it). i replaced the loop with the proper length fingertrapped one and the owner was so pissed at me. but hey its not like i was trying to save his life or anything,the A.Hole.

[AggieDave 6]

Yup, yall are right, Talons.

You would think that a jumping organization that throws that much money at a program (the only two S. Otters in the USAF's flightline are at the academy) they would have rigs that fit the mains.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[genghis 0]

It is an RI container similar to the Talon but it is technically a "Classic Pro" (you can see it on the RI website). The tension on those loops is definitely plenty enough to keep the pin tight, and the majority of the rigs look like that with a little D bag sticking out or at least a significant amount of the bottom flap showing. They are EIFF Classic canopies ranging from 270-304sqft in size.
As far as the comment about canopy sizes and flying ability, those canopies are meant to be that big regardless of flying abilities. Most of those guys fly canopies significantly smaller when they aren't jumping for the air force, but that is what they are issued and required to use since they also compete in classic accuracy for the air force. Hope this helps.
Blue Skies...
Jake

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Thanks for the clairification .... we all agree that the containers have an unusually large volume of main canopy.

What is your opinion about my concern regaring the risk of entraping the bridle and inducing a PCIT?

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[Fledgling 0]

Sorry mate, I never meant to question their abilities. Funnily enough I was actually trying to avoid getting flamed for telling some one I don't know to jump a smaller canopy for the sake of shortening their closing loop.
However I still stand by my statement that they should switch their containers for ones that will correctly fit what ever canopy they are jumping at the time. Whether the pin is tight or not doesn't really matter as the rig is simply not closed properly. And if they are as experienced as you say then they should have already done something about that.

[NWPoul 1]

Look, with such rigs some guy's are jumping and stop worrying about a little longer closing loop

Edit:
2Phoenix - actually these files are *.jpg and I have checked it's opening=/...
But may be it's cyrrilic names causing some troubles so I renamed them...
so as You did:) Thanks

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[phoenixlpr 0]

It would be nice if you would upload images with proper extenstions like .jpg .... at least easier to check them. Thanks!

[genghis 0]

No worries, no offense taken. As far as the bridle issue is concerned, we have not yet had an issue where a PC in tow was caused by a bridle getting stuck under the bottom flap. Talons and Classic Pro's do not have very stiff bottom flaps on the outer edges, which is probably a blessing in disguise as it allows the bridle to clear by fairly easily.
As far as the rigs obviously not fitting the canopies well, all of us who jump them or jumped them in the past (luckily im among the latter) are aware of the problems, but being a Military Jump team, we have to just shut up and color sometimes and just jump the rig we are issued. The Air Force academy and West Point still holds on to Classic Acc quite closely and until that changes, You'll probably always see our 4 ways jumping with turtle shells on their backs.
PS. You also might notice that the rig of the tail flyer who's closing loop is so long, is also off centered on his back by about 5 inches, and you can see how much the big rig disturbs a clean body position on all of the flyers.

[jumper03 0]

Quote

Yup, yall are right, Talons.

You would think that a jumping organization that throws that much money at a program (the only two S. Otters in the USAF's flightline are at the academy) they would have rigs that fit the mains.

I think the mains probably fit. I'm guessing the cadets pack their own mains and looking at the containers - they probably could fix that with packing. If you look at the bottom flap - see all the wrinkles? I'm guessing if they make their pack jobs wider rather than taller, that bottom flap would smooth out and the grommet would move up. I have seen that same problem on many, many different rigs. Change the pack job and presto.

Bulk distribution on the main can be just as important as on the reserve for a good looking rig/pack job.

just my $0.0000002

Scars remind us that the past is real

[genghis 0]

Believe it or not that thought had occurred to us. Redistribution of the material laterally in the pack job does work to tighten up the bottom flap, however it also makes the pack job significantly wider and then the side flaps are sticking out. It does remove the wrinkles quite well, but the openings get pretty sketchy as the D-bag gets snagged under the corners (if you've jumped a classic, you know that "a sketchy opening on a classic" is a bit of a rhetorical statement) of the reserve tray and the problem is only moderately fixed since then the grommets on the side flaps are the ones exposed. The containers are for the most part the same size, so the 270s fit comfortably in them, the 281s are tight and the 304s are, as pictured, busting out.

[packing_jarrett 0]

Dude those are some of the coolest pics I've seen on this site. I would be honored to go freeflying in that rig.

Na' Cho' Cheese

[jimmytavino 16]

that is some Scarey stuff, right there......

suspension lines showing,,, both below the side flaps, AND from under the riser covers...YIKES!!!

the main risers look awfully tight, and if this rig is anything like others of it's type, which i have seen,,, those riser covers will be peeled open waaaay before this jumper gets out the door.... incompatible mains being packed in a too small container, could be asking for trouble... the cap on the reserve P C also needs some attention,, very sloppy...

jt

[Mountainsky1 0]

In the immortal words of my very good friend Gatewood Smith, " Son, that's all I could afford to buy you this year." I am the guys that buys this equipment. I assure you the main canopy is appropriately sized to the container. Correct packing goes a long way in changing this condition. Our mission is both 4 way and precision accuracy, that means landing on a 3 CM target, measured to the closest CM. and this equipment is the best that money can buy. It will never look like the PD-106 reserve, Velocity 90something packed into the smallest, fastest coolest harness and container system in vogue. That is not our job. In my years of experience it always amazes me how fast users of this equipment will trash it when it is quite literally given to them, that is correct, you read it right, FREE Gear. I am sorry it does not measure up to your standards, I'll try and do better next time.

Marty Jones

[Deyan 36]

Quote

In the immortal words of my very good friend Gatewood Smith, " Son, that's all I could afford to buy you this year." I am the guys that buys this equipment. I assure you the main canopy is appropriately sized to the container. Correct packing goes a long way in changing this condition. Our mission is both 4 way and precision accuracy, that means landing on a 3 CM target, measured to the closest CM. and this equipment is the best that money can buy. It will never look like the PD-106 reserve, Velocity 90something packed into the smallest, fastest coolest harness and container system in vogue. That is not our job. In my years of experience it always amazes me how fast users of this equipment will trash it when it is quite literally given to them, that is correct, you read it right, FREE Gear. I am sorry it does not measure up to your standards, I'll try and do better next time


Another FREE GEAR

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[JohnDeere 0]

No i would be honored to video you freeflying that gear. When and where???

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[Spizzzarko 0]

They actually have 3 Otters.

I was an instructor there, so I have a good idea of how that program works and the gear that they use.