Different canopy makes...

[virulindex 0]

If the rain stays away this weekend I should be doing my AFF level 7 on Saturday. At some point (I can see it being very soon) I think I'm going to get pretty bummed having to pay to rent equipment at the DZ, not to mention it won't be as nice as a rig tailored to me.

I'm thinking about getting a Racer brand new and putting some used guts in it, probably something like a Sabre2 210 or something like that.

My question, though, is this: Is there a certain container/harness that is generally considered to be a better rig for beginners? I've read a lot of people love how their racers fit and I'd like something comfortable as well as easy to use.

Any particular reason I shouldn't get a Racer?

Also, as long as they're the right size, can you pretty much put any canopy make in any rig?

Thanks everyone.

[Beatnik 2]

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Any particular reason I shouldn't get a Racer?

This should stir up a great discussion.

I don't mind Racers at all and think they have a lot of things going for them. But there are a lot of people that don't like them. Mainly riggers because they aren't current or familiar with packing them. Because of that you might find some that charge more or refuse to pack them.

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Also, as long as they're the right size, can you pretty much put any canopy make in any rig?

The canopies just need to be in within that container's main and reserve tray volumes. As long as they fit it doesn't matter the make or model of the rig.

As far as a rig considered better for beginners, they really aren't any major differences that would affect anything. There are pretty standard features on all rigs out there, the rest are just bling and maybe an odd creature comfort.

[yarpos 4]

Surprised that your question hasnt started the usual religious war of words about which rig is best, especially starting the topic off with a Racer which people seem very opinionated about. Personally I think they are fine rigs and voted with my $ for many years. Re canopies: yes as long as the sizing match is good normal canopies can interchange between rigs (note: that this is a safety issue so until you have more experience it should be checked with your instructor/rigger...not, looks good to me , lets go)

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[PhreeZone 20]

Unless you are a weird body type (5'3" 230lb, 6'8" 160lbs, etc) you may find that for your first container it is easier to go used. You are going to have some less then graceful landings in your early skydiving career and it really sucks to get grass stains and scuffs on a $2000 container. It stings less when its a $600 used container. I bought my first container used 7 years ago and have put over 1300 jumps on it and its still going strong. I got it for about half the cost of a new one and put that money reight back into mnore jumps.

Don't rule out used gear. It can be a lot better fitting then the "One size fits not comfortably" rigs most DZ's have for student operations.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[riggerrob 643]

If you order a Racer, lie about your canopy size.
Tell them to build you a Racer sized for a 190 canopy when you really own a 150.

Racers are only comfortable when packed soft.
Unfortunately, what packs "okay" in Florida, packs as hard as a brick in the Southern California desert.

[heavydude 0]

I had real good luck buying rigs on Dropzone. I bought 2 rigs so far but so far have been jumping a Javelin used rig. It wasnt fancy, basically a student type rig but it had low jump numbers, people were suprised that it was used as the chute looked new.
Rigs are usually a balance of price, age of unit, condition and type of Canopy. Newer ZP rigs will be pricey while older F111 will be considerably less. Age of Cypress also makes a diff. Most used rigs come w/o them. A old but low number F111 rig is working for me but I am sure I'll eventually upgrade. Also my Cypress is only good for another 3 years. Starting out unless you are wealthy its enough just to spend dough on jumping, etc. Several of my buddies who were on Military jump teams reccommended buying a used rig as beginners are usually hard on gear. Like someone else I read posted on DZ its rough to trash a new $2000 container but not that bad on a $600 unit. My whole rig was $1300 but I also spent $240 for cypress 4 yr and batt. Oh and you will find that if you are a "normal" size rigs will be more expensive most times, everybody seems to be a manly 170 or 190.
Me being big moose can use those 260s - 300s, although I hope to shrink someday !

[Beatnik 2]

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If you order a Racer, lie about your canopy size.
Tell them to build you a Racer sized for a 190 canopy when you really own a 150.

Racers are only comfortable when packed soft.
Unfortunately, what packs "okay" in Florida, packs as hard as a brick in the Southern California desert.

I don't know about this one Rob. The atmosphere does affect how a parachute packs. Take packing in the dry province of Alberta. Everything packs larger there.

I think it is more of the design of the rig that makes in comfortable. Any rig packed soft is going to be more comfortable than a brick.

On a note to the original poster. One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is the AAD factor for Racers. Any AAD you get for a Racer is going to cost you a more money than a more common one pin models. If you are looking a used AAD, two pin AADs aren't as common as one pin ones.

[virulindex 0]

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Unless you are a weird body type (5'3" 230lb, 6'8" 160lbs, etc) you may find that for your first container it is easier to go used. You are going to have some less then graceful landings in your early skydiving career and it really sucks to get grass stains and scuffs on a $2000 container. It stings less when its a $600 used container.

I was actually thinking about going with the Shadow Racer, 1350 bucks, not too much worry about grass stains, custom fit, and still within my budget. I've still got a while before I buy anything though I will definitely keeps my mind open to other options.

[virulindex 0]

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On a note to the original poster. One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is the AAD factor for Racers. Any AAD you get for a Racer is going to cost you a more money than a more common one pin models. If you are looking a used AAD, two pin AADs aren't as common as one pin ones.

This is not something I was aware of. I'll have to look into that. Is it just the design of a container that determines which type of AAD it needs? I would guess so...

Thanks for letting me know that.

[hudsonderek 0]

you should check out the classifieds on here, you should be able to find some brand new rig, that some newbie bought without knowing very much about rigs, and then found out they didn't like it for about half the price. seriously, going used for a first rig is the best way. who knows, you might spend all this money on free fly mods and find you don't like free flying, you might buy a seven cell and find you like a 9 cell more, you might buy a vigil, and find that you think cypres are better quality. I've just seen way to many rigs with less than 100 jumps with huge canopies in them, that people bought new, for sale for a fraction of what they paid. you're sore about paying gear rental, well try loosing $2000 on something you put 50 jumps on, that's even more depressing. take your time, read reviews, talk with people, don't make a rash decision, this is coming from someone that made a rash decision and two months later sold his whole set up to buy something else (well I kept the reserve, you know anyone that wants a raven dash-m 150 ;)

[Martini 0]

The 2-pin Cypres is about an extra hundred bucks over a 1-pin.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[tonyv 0]

Nobody's brought this up yet, but if you purchase a used harness/container, you can generally send it back to the manufacturer and have it resized to fit you correctly. Find a container that fits the size canopies that you are interested in. If the harness happens to fit you, then sweet!, if not, have it resized.

I cant comment on the cost of having other rigs resized, but if you find yourself with a used Infinity, it will run somewhere in the $200-$300 price range to have the harness sized to your body.

It's always a compromise. You can buy new, but it generally costs more and you have to wait, but you get exactly what you want. Or you can buy used, save some money, get it within a week, and it will have most of the features/colors that you want.

Good Luck!

-Tony
(253) 445-8790
Velocity Sports Equipment

[Sletzer 3]

Great point, but how long does a rig re-size take? Probably a few weeks? Looks like unless you find a decent fitting rig you're going to be waiting either way, or just be unconfortable.... Then again, rigs that don't perfectly fit me are all I'm used to right now. (I'm sure that's true with most students and non-rig owning jumpers) I think I could deal with most any rig as long as it fits securely. You guys with custom rigs are just spoiled

I will be kissing hands and shaking babies all afternoon. Thanks for all your support! *bows*

SCS #8251

[airdvr 210]

Isn't there an RSL issue with Racers? I was told by someone I consider very knowledgeable that RSL's and Racers don't like eachother. I forget the reason's why...anyone care to re-enlighten me?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[riggerrob 643]

Opinions vary ...

If you ask Jump Shack, they will tell you why their RSL is better than anyone else's.

If you ask our manifestor, she will tell you a scary story about a cross-connector style (similar to RAcer) RSL on a rig from another manufacturer and about how she cutaway, but the RSL snagged the back of her helmet and stayed connected all the way to landing.

[PhreeZone 20]

Resizing the rig is ALOT shorter then the 16-24 week times for delivery that most container manufactors are quoting right now. If you have a master rigger local to you he might be able to have it done in a week or so even.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Beatnik 2]

I have seen several people put a standard RSL on their rig or the factory approves connecting both shackles on one riser. Then it affective acts like a regular RSL except for the appearance of two shackles on one riser.