Severance Pay

[goose491 0]

I'd like to poll you all for opinion and advice, I'm really down about my work situation lately.

I'll make a long story as short as possible and say that the department I work in has been drastically restructured over the past year and half or so. This as part of a major restructuring of of entire company. Today I find that I no longer enjoy what I do.

It can easily be said that the job I was hired to do, no longer exists and has been replaced by one that I do not enjoy. Problem number one is that it has been done in babby steps. I was having one on one meetings with my boss as I didn't feel comfortable. He had reassured me that we weren't exactly sure where it was we were heading. He requested I stay the course a while and see. If I still didn't like it, he would help me find a position I liked more... or he would help me get a severance package. Problem number two is that they let him go as one of the last steps in the restructuring process . Then replaced him and gave us all new "role descriptions" and "accountabilities" like flipping a switch. To put it mildly, I felt trapped. (One thing which works in my favour is that we have not officially signed the new roles/titles... that's next week)

The other day, my new boss informed me that they are also going to change my hours. I would now have to work a few late nights and weekends... I said NO. Then proceeded to explain the above to him.

I meet with him again tomorrow morning. It's either going to be a new position offer, or severance. At this point, I'd like to ask anyone who knows anything about this, or has had similar experiences for advice. What am I actually entitled to legally? Can I ask for severance now that I have actually performed some of the new tasks? What is standard practice or amounts? I'm leaning towards the package... I'd like to ask for one months wage for each year of service. Is that reasonable? If he offers me another position and I don't want it, can I still hold them to pay severance?

Any help, any info, any courage-building words of wisdom... all will be greatly appreciated!
Nick

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[waltappel 1]

Getting laid off can really rock!!!!

Ask for 6 mo. severance, negotiate down to 3.

Collect unemployment until it runs out.

Enjoy life!!!!

Walt

[j0nes 0]

what are you worried about, you're canadian! they babysit you guys.

[waltappel 1]

Quote

what are you worried about, you're canadian! they babysit you guys.

You replied to the wrong post. I'm not Canadian, but I wouldn't mind being babysat sometimes, so maybe I should reconsider.

Walt

[goose491 0]

A bit more info. It's an insurance company and I've been here almost 4 years.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[goose491 0]

Quote

Ask for 6 mo. severance, negotiate down to 3.

Is that arbritrary? Shouldn't my time in be considered in factory the amount? I've been there 4 years. Should I accept anything less then 4 months? You know?

As far as unemployment goes, I hadn't even considered it but I will look into it. No reason not to collect what I have paid a premium for. No reason not to have a paycheck whilst I look for a new job somewhere I guess.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[waltappel 1]

Quote

A bit more info. It's an insurance company and I've been here almost 4 years.

I have no experience in the insurance industry, nor do I have any experience at being unemployed in Canada, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Clearly you need to be prepared to change jobs. Make sure your personal finances are ok for that.

Most companies these days have a real appreciation for employees who are flexible. You might be able to create a win-win situation if you can talk them into sending you to some sort of training for a different job within the company. Before you do something like that, though, make sure the training is for something that will make you marketable *outside* the company.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Quote

Ask for 6 mo. severance, negotiate down to 3.

Is that arbritrary? Shouldn't my time in be considered in factory the amount? I've been there 4 years. Should I accept anything less then 4 months? You know?

As far as unemployment goes, I hadn't even considered it but I will look into it. No reason not to collect what I have paid a premium for. No reason not to have a paycheck whilst I look for a new job somewhere I guess.

The 6 month figure *is* arbitray. In fact, I figure you have very little, if any, chance of getting it. Three months is still arbitray, but I think it's much more in line with general practice--at least in some of the larger US companies.

Unemployment rocks!!!!! Don't hesitate at all to collect it. It can be a paid vacation!!

Walt

[Thanatos340 1]

You got got a Contract??
Read it and see what it says you are entitled to.

Other wise..

Each Payday.. You and Your employer are even.
You worked.. They paid you for the time you worked.

They owe you for every hour you work (unless you are salary in which case they owe for the Time you are employed). After that... Anything they give you is Gravy.

[AlexCrowley 0]

legally nothing.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[goose491 0]

Quote

You got got a Contract??
Read it and see what it says you are entitled to.

Other wise..

Each Payday.. You and Your employer are even.
You worked.. They paid you for the time you worked.

They owe you for every hour you work (unless you are salary in which case they owe for the Time you are employed). After that... Anything they give you is Gravy.

No, I don't think that is accurate.

When a company lays you off, then must provide you severance. If you are let go without cause that is. I'm pretty sure that applies if your job there, simply ceases to exist. They cannot just put you out and say you are "even".

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Ashtanga 0]

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When a company lays you off, then must provide you severance.

Maybe in Canada but not in the states. In the states generally the only thing you "owe" someone when you release them is any vacation time they had.

[AndyMan 7]

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When a company lays you off, then must provide you severance. If you are let go without cause that is. I'm pretty sure that applies if your job there, simply ceases to exist. They cannot just put you out and say you are "even".

It really depends where you are. In many US states, you're employed "at will" of the employer. In many states they can drop you in a heartbeat, with no excuse, without any severance.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Broke 0]

take the money and run, then start up a consulting firm. Have them as one of your customers and charge them more than they were paying you.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[j0nes 0]

in the u.s., they don't have to give you anything. most companies do it to avoid future litigation.

[philly51 0]

You have obviously never worked in the construction industry.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"

[GiaKrembs 0]

Last year our company went through a re-org and layed off approx. 30% of our staff. Severance was 1 week's salary/pay per year worked. Because of the circumstances behind the layoff, they also offered 1 months salary on top of it.

If you're able to nego 3 months you'd be doing well.

g

Raddest ho this side of Jersey #1 - rest in peace brother
Beth lost her cherry and I missed it
.... you want access to it, but you don't want to break it.

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

They cannot just put you out and say you are "even".

They Can Here.

Now you may qualify for Unemployment if you are let go due to no fault of your own but that is seperate issue.

Laws Vary from State to State (And I am sure they are different in other Countries) but here in the US and in Georgia which is a Right to work State..
Every Paday.. You and your employer are Even (with the exception of earned Vacation Time and even that can be hard to collect sometimes.)

Sounds fair to me. You work, You get paid.
No more work, No more pay.

[Elisha 1]

You sound like an unhappy Actuary, Finance or IT guy. Do you work for Manulife or something? If your personal financial situation is decent, take the severance, go skydiving somewhere warm and go work for a competitor somewhere else in Toronto. Toronto is the Canadian hotbed for Insurance companies. You have plenty of options.

[narcimund 0]

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They cannot just put you out and say you are "even".

I'd be fascinated to know why you think this.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[christoofar 0]

Quote

I'd like to poll you all for opinion and advice, I'm really down about my work situation lately.

I'll make a long story as short as possible and say that the department I work in has been drastically restructured over the past year and half or so. This as part of a major restructuring of of entire company. Today I find that I no longer enjoy what I do.

It can easily be said that the job I was hired to do, no longer exists and has been replaced by one that I do not enjoy. Problem number one is that it has been done in babby steps. I was having one on one meetings with my boss as I didn't feel comfortable. He had reassured me that we weren't exactly sure where it was we were heading. He requested I stay the course a while and see. If I still didn't like it, he would help me find a position I liked more... or he would help me get a severance package. Problem number two is that they let him go as one of the last steps in the restructuring process . Then replaced him and gave us all new "role descriptions" and "accountabilities" like flipping a switch. To put it mildly, I felt trapped. (One thing which works in my favour is that we have not officially signed the new roles/titles... that's next week)

The other day, my new boss informed me that they are also going to change my hours. I would now have to work a few late nights and weekends... I said NO. Then proceeded to explain the above to him.

I meet with him again tomorrow morning. It's either going to be a new position offer, or severance. At this point, I'd like to ask anyone who knows anything about this, or has had similar experiences for advice. What am I actually entitled to legally? Can I ask for severance now that I have actually performed some of the new tasks? What is standard practice or amounts? I'm leaning towards the package... I'd like to ask for one months wage for each year of service. Is that reasonable? If he offers me another position and I don't want it, can I still hold them to pay severance?

Any help, any info, any courage-building words of wisdom... all will be greatly appreciated!
Nick

I can only speak for what happens in Texas, since I was in this same situation. A big insurance company I worked for was slashing I/T jobs to send them to Bangalore. The CIO that was responsible for this got the company in a media panic, and he was forced out. But either way, the Indian programmers remained even though they were an embarrasement (this company insures many in the US military).

You can volunteer to be laid off, which that means you are ENTITLED to a severance package, if and only if certain criteria are met, which is mostly how large the layoff will be. The employer is also required to report the layoff to the state employment agency before actually doing it. This is how many layoff numbers make it to press because of the reporting.

Employers can choose to layoff in onsies twosies, which allows them to skip the reporting requirement, but if you are talking a large layoff (say 500 or even a thousand employees), the company obviously has to do a formal procedure for letting people go.

Either way, the employer has total control. You can ask to be let go, but that doesn't mean you will. However if you are let go right after the layoff, you have a right to file for unemployment and file suit if the employer changed their mind about your employment status right after the official layoff ended and had no just cause for your termination, EVEN if you are in a right-to-work state.

I asked to be voluntarily let go from my employer and they agreed to it and I did get a nice severance package which kept me above water until I found work again. If I had waited, I would have been terminated in a onsie-twosie termination.

It was really depressing. The media caught on that the company was flying in loads of Indians and filling up surrounding hotels with them. My old apartment was 1/4 mi from the Doubetree and it was nothing but Tata and Wipro employees staying there and the company was sending shuttlevans back and forth to the lobby to pick them up.

Luckily H1-B workers have almost doubled in cost since that happened (2000), so now you have to ship the work itself overseas, which creates a big logistical problem. Most small and midsize companies are refusing to sponsor H1-B, so at least I don't have much to worry about for now.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[christoofar 0]

Follow-up to this:

If you are in the US, happen to be female and you are near the end of your pregnancy, you have a cool option. TAKE YOUR FMLA before the layoffs happen. I would take FMLA if you know something is going down.

29CFR825.825.216 has this clause for restoring employees who were on FMLA leave, but their position was elminated during the course of their FMLA absence:

An employer would have the burden of proving
that an employee would have been laid off during the FMLA leave period
and, therefore, would not be entitled to restoration.

This clause puts a BIG question mark on the employers head. Two cases that were filed after the layoff I went through involved employees who were eliminated while on FMLA. I can't remember what happened to one of the cases, but the other got a nice settlement from it only because right after the layoff her job went back up on the job boards for less money than what she was making before.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[goose491 0]

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(unless you are salary in which case they owe for the Time you are employed).

I had missed that. Yes, I am a salaried employee and I have worked permanent full-time for four years.

I worked another year and half full time for them a few years before that too, before going away to college. And when I was in high school, I worked here part-time for about another year and a half.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[RhondaLea 4]

Apparently the laws are different in Canada than in the US:

http://www.canadaone.com/ezine/expert/expert146.html

It really doesn't matter what we do here in the good old USA if the Goose wants to know what's going to happen to him across the northern border.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Danger 0]

Goose,

Any severance you recieve is counted against any unemployment insurance you may receive. This happened to me several years ago. My severance was 18 weeks pay. I was not able to get UI until the 18 weeks passed. No double dipping. And yes this was in Canada.