DirtyDon 0 #26 December 7, 2005 Hey Chuck, You know I'll buy tickets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDon 0 #27 December 7, 2005 (Outside this particular issue, that's an odd thing to say. How many DZO's trust people to pack their own reserves) Hey bill, isnt packing resrves an FAA rigger thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unfeomateo 1 #28 December 7, 2005 Hey chuck its Matt. So the DZ will be closed for sure? Jeff will be back from the army on the 16th, so we will jump as much as we can after that. . If your there and have any tickets left we will but some. We might head to eloy as well. Where will everyone jump now? Perris or Elsinore? See ya soon. Maybe I can learn to sitfly before the end of the month :( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sd-slider 0 #29 December 7, 2005 I left a burger @ the foot of the Aero dr offramp. Shut up and eat already!!!!!!!Anvil Brother #69 Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk... Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sd-slider 0 #30 December 7, 2005 QuoteYou know I'll buy tickets. I've got 42...count'em...42 to off before the end of da month.Anvil Brother #69 Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk... Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #31 December 7, 2005 QuoteI left a burger @ the foot of the Aero dr offramp. Shut up and eat already!!!!!!! *** BURRRRRPPP! Opps...what that for someone ELSE?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #32 December 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou know I'll buy tickets. I've got 42...count'em...42 to off before the end of da month. *** Who's yer buddy!?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #33 December 7, 2005 Quotei have $400 in jump tickets that i am willing to sell for $15 each. they have to be used up before 1/1/06, the day that skydive san diego dies. i would give them away before i would ever let andy buy them back. if you want some, let me know... If you really want to support the DZO, throw them out. Giving em away (or especially selling them) doesn't do the guy any good. I mean, I'm not saying you shouldn't try to recoup your losses... but giving or selling those tickets to someone that will use them doesn't really help the DZ at all. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unfeomateo 1 #34 December 7, 2005 Quote I've got 42...count'em...42 to off before the end of da month. Holy Crap. I have 1 ticket. You better jump your ass off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #35 December 7, 2005 You guys don’t know the half of it . . . Skydive SD (or Borderland) has always been a weird and somewhat flakey DZ. Mac and Nina McDonald owned it for many years back in the late 70s and early 80s. Mac was an oddball, but he was a cool and personable oddball. I jumped a lot there during that period. The next DZO to be, Don Muma, pulled a fast one down at City Hall and wrangled the DZ away from Mac by convincing the city council to award him the lease. Mac and Nina were heartbroken, but they moved to Warner Springs and started a sail plane operation. BTW, Tom Allen got stuck with a couple thousand dollars in worthless jump tickets (he showed them to me stacked in a shoebox) which I think he used to wallpaper his gear room at home. I didn’t like how underhanded Don was so I left and went to work for Debbie Blackmon in Lake Elsinore. Don Muma was the archetype for the next generations version of the cheap and greedy DZO. He skimped on the airplane maintenance, raised prices, and was the moody type. His idea of amenities was a small strip of grass to pack on. And he had a certain amount of bad luck right off the bat. John Nichols was hit and killed in freefall by a Navy transport (a C-130 if I remember right) on its way to North Island. That's why it's officially called Nichols Field, but we always, and still do, just call it Borderland. Not long after John died Don had a JM working for him that put out a female first jump student without hooking up the static line. The student went in with no reserve pull and no AAD. Don, who was first to the body, pulled the static line and direct bag off the dead student, weighed them down with some rocks and threw them into Otay Lake. He might have gotten away with it, but the JM was so devastated she cracked and told how she failed to hook up the static line. Sometime after that Buzz started a DZ at Brown Field and eventually purchased Borderland too. So we were all pretty happy that Don Muma was out of business. Then Buzz shut down Brown Field and moved the entire operation to Borderland. I've never jumped there during the Buzz years and only knew him from evaluating in an occasional AFF Cert Course at his Brown Field DZ. He always seemed like an alright guy, so I'd like to hear the other side of the story. In any case, I'm sorry to hear of your current troubles at Skydive San Diego, but that's Borderland, as weird and flakey as ever . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #36 December 7, 2005 QuoteSometime after that Buzz started a DZ at Brown Field and eventually purchased Borderland too. By "Borderland" are you talking about Otay? In my mind, Browns Field was always "Skydive San Diego", or do I have things mixed up? Buzz bought Otay from Jamey Woodward. I sat through an AFFI Course at Browns Field. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #37 December 7, 2005 Yes, Otay (lake) is/was Boarderland. There were some U.S. Navy SEALS running a DZ at Brown field recently but they closed as they are a bit busy with other stuff right now . . . And right, I forgot about Jamie Woodward. He owned three DZs at that time, the one in WA, Buckeye in AZ and Otay. And, who knows, I haven't been down there in a while so maybe I'm the one who's mixed up. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #38 December 7, 2005 QuoteWant to see some interesting reading... Google...Buzz Fink. Well, I suppose it's interesting reading, if you like an all-out flamefest after the fact. Buzz had a fatality or two that would have been prevented by the use of an AAD, and it hit him very, very hard. So he implemented the "no-CYPRES, no-jump-here" rule, and he got himself flamed hairless by the recdot skydiving community. Other than some really ugly personal attacks--including some against his staff, who became a kind of scapegoat and substitute, because Buzz posted only rarely--there really isn't much to read. Did the CYPRES rule change after the dz was taken over by Andy? And what is the clause of the contract that allowed this to happen? rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #39 December 7, 2005 Yes the Cypress rule changed slightly in that you didn't have to have one if you had 1000 jumps or were doing CRW. I believe the clause had something to do with Buzz having the sole right to renew Andy's contract. Apparently he does want to renew.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #40 December 7, 2005 QuoteDid the CYPRES rule change after the dz was taken over by Andy? And what is the clause of the contract that allowed this to happen? Two very good questions, Rhonda. I would also like to know the answers.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #41 December 7, 2005 QuoteYes the Cypress rule changed slightly in that you didn't have to have one if you had 1000 jumps or were doing CRW. Buzz made the CRW exception himself beforehand, FYI. Don't know about the 1000 jump exception, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #42 December 7, 2005 QuoteAnd right, I forgot about Jamie Woodward. He owned three DZs at that time, the one in WA, Buckeye in AZ and Otay. Actually 4 DZ's at once. Snohomish, WA. Buckeye, AZ. Otay Lakes, CA. and where I learned: Palm Desert, CA (called "Parachutes over Palm Springs" or "POPS" for short). One of the most beautiful flights I ever went on was when Jamey's manager at Otay called for help and we all piled into the C-182 and flew down there. I've never driven to Otay by car, but remember well the flight from Bermuda Dunes in Palm Desert....over the mountains into Otay. Beautiful people and a unique atmosphere there. Got to meet the DZ dog, Malfunction, who you -had- to pet for good luck before boarding the plane. :^) Then the flight back to "POPS" at sunset. If I had a scanner I'd post the pictures I have here of that flight. Absolutely gorgeous. The sun setting as we crossed the mountains again, with Jamey at the controls, Shirley, his wife, flying right seat....the 2 TI's and me in the back. Wonderful memories. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sd-slider 0 #43 December 7, 2005 QuoteWho's yer buddy!?! Sounds like a reason to show up and knock down a few.....Jumps-n-Beers that is ****** In that order of course!****** QuoteWho's yer buddy!?!Anvil Brother #69 Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk... Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katzeye 0 #44 December 7, 2005 Sad situation, I hope the staff make it through OK. I loved jumping at Otay. It has a beautiful landing area and has nice, steady winds. Can't say I'm surprised tho - Buzz is a shrewd businessman. I'd be curious to hear about the contract details... Is a chicken omelette redundant? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #45 December 7, 2005 QuoteOther than some really ugly personal attacks--including some against his staff, who became a kind of scapegoat and substitute, because Buzz posted only rarely-- Whatever happened to that guy...Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #46 December 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteOther than some really ugly personal attacks--including some against his staff, who became a kind of scapegoat and substitute, because Buzz posted only rarely-- Whatever happened to that guy... I just love a guy with a sense of humor. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDon 0 #47 December 8, 2005 ***In any case, I'm sorry to hear of your current troubles at Skydive San Diego, but that's borderland,as weird and flakey as ever...... Maybe the dropzone is cursed with bad JuJu. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #48 December 8, 2005 QuoteI'd like to hear the other side of the story. I agree with you. That is ALWAYS a smart choice before taking sides! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDon 0 #49 December 8, 2005 Hey Enrique, I've seen both sides.I'm down there every weekend. Why don't YOU go down there and find out for yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #50 December 8, 2005 Good morning Don: it is easy to see that my post is not directed to support either Andy or Buzz as I have not personally read the contract. I like both Andy and Buzz, they both have supported me in different ways during my life as a skydiver. However, I believe that it would be totally unfair for me to go on a public forum badmouthing either one of the parties involved without having thorough and direct knowledge of the legal implications of the contract they signed. Anything short of that I would consider gossip. Also, it is my belief that judging someone or someone's actions based on hearsay is unfair as well. Again, this is my personal opinion and you, as everyone else, are free to do as they deem convenient. ... cheer up.... and I wish you have blue skies and soft landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
