RSL

[gearless_chris 1]

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I've also seen the release catch actually CONNECTED to the large ring

It's almost funny that they want to disconnect the RSL for safety (so they can get stable before pulling the reserve), then they stow the shackle on the big ring so it doesn't flop around, and create a situation where you may not want an RSL (one riser not releasing).

My only concern with the RSL is my 3 ring getting stuck on the non-RSL side so it won't release. When my Monarch blew up the right rear slider grommet went past the 3 ring and was on the right front riser. At some point it went over the 3 ring assembly. I wonder what would've happened if it had stopped at the 3 ring.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[mjosparky 4]

I have read through this entire thread, some parts twice. It is sad that so many jumpers have such a poor understanding of the gear they wear and how the various components parts work and interact with each other. Most sound like they are repeating what they have heard and have no idea what it means. Skydiving gear is not rocket science. Instead of over thinking it spend time learning just how it works and you will see just how simple it really is.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerpaul 1]

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I don't know of one specifically but one way that can happen is if when cutting away, only the rsl side riser disconnects. You would still have the main attached by one riser and a good chance of an entanglement. Using a system with a collins lanyard helps to solve this problem by helping to ensure the non rsl riser disconnects. This is an important aspect of the Skyhook system. That is basically a RSL with a Collins lanyard, and a faster reserve deployment system. I believe Mirages DRX system is doing the same basic thing. With either of these systems even under a violently spinning mal the reserve is out so fast that it SHOULD prevent the problems you are concearned with in your original post. Don't forget to arch as taught though. All in all for ME a mard system (Skyhook,Drx) is a worthwhile addition to my gear, although as of yet discounting student jumps I have not used a rsl. I am currently saving for my Skyhook equiped V3.

FYI - the Collins Lanyard has a patent.

I have been told that the owners of the patent are not granting licenses unless they are also licensing the Skyhook system.

So the 2 other MARD systems that are emerging do not have a Collins Lanyard.

[BUBLHED 0]

So the 2 other MARD systems that are emerging do not have a Collins Lanyard.


Good to know. Thanks for the update.
In researching for my next harness/container system,I've seen the DRX sequence pics from Mirage. What is the other MARD system?

I find the engineering aspect of our equipment fasinating. I think it's a really great time in our sport. Things seem to be advancing at a much faster pace. Very exciting from my point of view. I realize that some things will be great and some will not, but still very exciting.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[erdnarob 1]

Of course a RSL use is not letting you decide when to pull the reserve. In a spinning mal one would like to wait a couple of seconds to get stable before pulling the reserve. But a RLS is good for a beginner like a student since it provides a solution to solve a mal problem using a "two birds with one stone" way.
That was my philosophy to have no RSL since I wanted to stay in control. But after seeing Bill Booth's demo of the Skyhook at Reno (PIA symposium) and the results (on videos), I changed my mind and now I am equiped with a Skyhook. This summer I got an unsual total mal and pulled my reserve. My bridle/pilot chute/freebag assembly released from the Skyhook RSL without me noticing it. It happened like a lightning and my PD reserve, when I looked up, was waiting for me to get its brakes released.

No device: RSL, AAD, beeper...or even 2 parachutes can garantee you to stay alive but properly used and maintained they all can contribute to keep you in good shape. Since skydiving is a extreme activity, many years ago I decided that the best way to protect myself was first to become a rigger. So far so good.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

The other RSL system is the RAX (Reserve Activation and Extration) from Jerry Bamchem. It is made of nylon tapes, grommet and stainless steel pin. Jerry sent me the demo kit and the DVD of the testings. Quite convicing. The RAX seems really to be a good competitor for the Skyhook and the DRX (I didn't see the DRX yet) and has not Collins lanyard soo far but a rig maker can decide to add it.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[BUBLHED 0]

Thanks for the reply. There are sequenced pics of a DRX activation on the Mirage website. If you didn't know better from the pics, it looks like a Skyhook sequence. Blue Skies and Happy Holidays!!

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[riggerpaul 1]

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has not Collins lanyard soo far but a rig maker can decide to add it.

Not if they cannot get the patent holder to license it.

[billbooth 10]

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Thanks for all the replies. I guess the problem I have with it is that in a sport where being in control of the situation is so critical to your survival, an RSL actually gives you less control over whats about to happen next. That's just something I'm not sure I'm comfortable with. However, based on all your replies it seems that in that particular scenario the action that RSL forces seems to be the best choice in most cases and close to that in almost all others. Certainly, at my experience level I think an RSL is a must and I had little intention of not using one even before I posted this.
Can anyone think of/know of a situation when an RSL caused a major reserve malfunction, not including line twist?

If everyone was always "in control" of the situation, then almost no one would ever die skydiving. AADs and RSLs are for those times when you are not in control.

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

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even if you are in a spinning main-mal and get very unstable when you cut away, the RSL and reserve will deploy so quickly that you will most likely only have one or two linetwists.
thats how i would think most cases would end up.

That's just not true. I cut away from a spinning malfunction this summer and had about 8 or 9 linetwists in my reserve because of the RSL. I now jump without one, because watching my reserve twist up like that scared the shit out ofme. A few more twists and I'm not sure it would have been flying straight.

My "solution" is to try prevention. I want to never be in need of cutting away when I'm low. That means not going low first of all, having a hard deck and sticking to it, and not doing especially aggressive flying down low. Does prevention always work? No. But this is skydiving, not bowling. The risks can be managed in different ways, but never eliminated.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi BUBLHED,

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxjHOSKTT0

JerryBaumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

All good responses. Here is my choice for the two best:

I have read through this entire thread, some parts twice. It is sad that so many jumpers have such a poor understanding of the gear they wear and how the various components parts work and interact with each other. Most sound like they are repeating what they have heard and have no idea what it means. Skydiving gear is not rocket science. Instead of over thinking it spend time learning just how it works and you will see just how simple it really is.

Sparky


If everyone was always "in control" of the situation, then almost no one would ever die skydiving. AADs and RSLs are for those times when you are not in control.

billbooth


JerryBaumchen

[BUBLHED 0]

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxjHOSKTT0

JerryBaumchen


Nice !! Thanks J.B.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[The_Don 0]

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Hi BUBLHED,

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxjHOSKTT0

JerryBaumchen

I backed that up so my wife could watch the bag lock with me.

Great visual, thanks for the post.

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!

[airtwardo 7]

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Hi BUBLHED,

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxjHOSKTT0

JerryBaumchen

I backed that up so my wife could watch the bag lock with me.

Great visual, thanks for the post.

Not to hijack the thread but, the bag lock part kinda shows that the jumper picks up some speed during that malfunction.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[erdnarob 1]

Hi Bublhed. Here is a picture of the RAX taken from the demo kit I got from Jerry Baumchen. He just kindly gave me the OK to post it. Second picture is the Skyhook from a demo kit I got this summer from UPT and this for comparison purpose. I know the pictures are not explaining how it works in details but it's better than nothing. On the RAX picture, the white line on the right side is playing the role of the RSL. On the Skyhook picture the left part of the bridle is attached to the pilot chute. You can see the RSL with its loop pulling the yellow cable (Collins lanyard). On the pictures the Skyhook is seen from the yoke while the RAX is seen from the bottom of the container.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[BUBLHED 0]

Thanks. I understood (even if in type I don't explain it well) how the Skyhook works. I didn't however get how the RAX attached. The picture clears things up alot. I don't know how to rig them or install them, but I do "get" how they work, why they work and what they can do for me. I am saving for my vector 3 now. Not because of the Skyhook but IMO that is a bonus. I like Upt products, find them comfortable, user friendly, and it's hard to argue the research and quality that is put into them.

Thanks to everyone here that takes the time to actually help and pass on there experience. I will always strive to learn. If I inadvertantly ask or say something that keeps one person safe then I'll be really happy. Especially if it's me.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[The_Don 0]

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Quote

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Hi BUBLHED,

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxjHOSKTT0

JerryBaumchen

I backed that up so my wife could watch the bag lock with me.

Great visual, thanks for the post.

Not to hijack the thread but, the bag lock part kinda shows that the jumper picks up some speed during that malfunction.

I agree. just more knowledge.
Sorry for the hijack.

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!

[D22369 0]

Spadochron" on youtube, you'll get videos of a bunch of different mals & cutaways. On each one, the jumper is unstable in the 1-2 seconds following a cutaway.***

If your body position is good (hard arch) I call bullshit on this,
total cutaways 5 but these are the two that would have produced instability.
I have two cutaways due to spinning linetwists. the first was on a stilletto 135 at 1.5-1 wingloading I was on my back while spinning and chopping- the centrifugal force threw me straight away - I was on my back while the reserve opened above me (by my point of view) it was actually partially horizontal there was no tumbling or or instability, I was merely not belly to earth.

2nd chop line twists, icarus fx-85 2.3-1 wingloading. the diving linetwists gave me a horrible sense of vertical speed, when I chopped I was instantly stable but took 2 seconds to pull the reserve to make sure I was not gonna tumble - I have that one on video
I realise that 2 chops doesnt make a good case study, but in my two spinning cutaways an rsl wouldnt have made a difference in either.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[yarpos 4]

so based one a sample of one (an event you apparently comfortably survived as you are posting here) you disconnect a proven safety device. your line twists more likely came from your body position in preparation for cutaway than anything to do with the RSL......or sometimes they just happen. A seven cell can tolerate line twists and still fly fine (as you apparently found out). You seem to have fixed a problem that doesnt exist (or perhaps has minimal consequences) and placed your self in a situation where a useful back up is not working if you ever get caught out down low.

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

I think based on "a sample" and based on "an experience" are two different things. It only takes one "experience" to kill you. Comfortable is subjective. By the time I was untwisted under my reserve I was around 1000 feet at a DZ I'd never been to before. That was not comfortable.

In regards to RSL's I've heard instructors say "wait until you've actually had a cutaway before you disconnect it." Well now I have. I'm by no means an expert on cutting away, as opposed to those of you in the double digit cutaway numbers, but I feel comfortable pulling both handles on my own. In my situation the RSL produced some, to me, undesirable side effects. I chopped around 3000, thus negating the need for an instant reserve deployment.

I'm not saying that RSL's are frequently killers, but my experience made me rethink using one. I would be much more willing to use one of the MARD systems, if my container were compatable.

Respectfully,
Ryan

[yarpos 4]

can only agree with what you have said, but it just leads me to a different conclusion. But thats life aint it? , I would have loved an RSL on that jump but they hadnt been invented yet........ I guess that was my sample of one at the other end of the spectrum.

All the best with your preferred course if thats what is safest for you.

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[P-dro 0]

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That's just not true. I cut away from a spinning malfunction this summer and had about 8 or 9 linetwists in my reserve because of the RSL

No, it was because of your body position. And if you wait to be in a perfect freefall position after chopping, you are putting yourself in a very dangerous position... Last point, before being TSO'ed reserve are tested packed with linetwist.

Concerning the unreleased riser problem, a workaround has been developed on the Atom container. There are 2 pins on the reserve, each linked to a riser, the RSL can not open the container until the 2 risers are gone... There must be some drawbacks too, since no system is perfect...

[erdnarob 1]

Good choice about a Vector III. I am with them for 30 years now (Wonderhog, Sprint, Vector, Vector II, Vector III...) and still believe they are the best.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[jsaxton 0]

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Not to hijack the thread but, the bag lock part kinda shows that the jumper picks up some speed during that malfunction.

If you've had one ya' know