loumeinhart 0 #1 November 8, 2005 check it out - maybe it belongs in SC http://www.newsnet5.com/health/5280589/detail.html Clinic Seeks Candidate For First-Ever Face Transplant Controversial Procedure Brings Up Many Ethical Questions POSTED: 3:55 pm EST November 8, 2005 CLEVELAND -- Doctors at the Cleveland Clinic are getting ready to perform the very first face transplant. But as 5 On Your Side's Alicia Booth reported, everything has to line up just right for this life-changing event to happen. Cleveland Clinic plastic surgeon Maria Siemionow knows how to fix body parts torn apart by accident and disease, but now she hopes to do the one thing no surgical team in the world has ever tried before: she wants to transplant a face to someone who desperately wants it. "Almost (every) patient who doesn't have a face, and there are patients like that, amazingly who are staying in the house for many, many years," said Siemionow. She said, "I think the most important part will be to bring those patients back to society." So far, only Hollywood has conquered the procedure. Discuss Facial Transplant In the movie "Face Off," one man's face is traded with another's: truly science fiction -- and nothing like what would happen in a real operating room. The Cleveland Clinic's surgical team would remove the facial skin, arteries, veins, and nerves from a cadaver, and transfer them directly to the recipient. In some cases, they might even take the neck with the face, or include the ears and the scalp. It's a possibility that's raises numerous ethical questions, debated by bioethicists all around the world. Cleveland State University philosophy professor Joe Demarco teaches classes on bioethics, and says the most significant issue is making sure the patient gives informed consent, that he or she clearly knows the risks. Demarco believes that under the right circumstances, a face transplant should be allowed to happen. "If I knew all of these risk factors and I decided to go ahead with this, I would want to do it. I wouldn't want some bioethicist telling me that the risks are too great for me," said Demarco. And there are plenty of risks. The procedure may not take, and the person could end up looking more deformed than before the attempt. If it works, the patient will not ever look totally like themselves, or even like the person whose face they have. Instead, it would be more a combination of both. Another big issue, perhaps the biggest, is a patient's ability and willingness to take anti-rejection drugs, potentially for the rest of their lives, reported Booth. "You're more likely to get infection -- life-threatening infection -- and second, you're more likely to get secondary tumors," said the Clinic's Dr. James Zinns. In other words, you're more likely to get cancer. But progress in improving anti-rejection drugs is one of the reasons this project is moving forward. The right patient also has to be mentally stable and physically healthy. And the patient has to realize that the tabloid media will probably make this life-altering medical breakthrough look and sound more like science fiction. This is why the Cleveland Clinic has waited this long to talk so openly about it. "Because we were afraid that certain irresponsible journalists could take this and turn this into a circus," said Zinns. But this is no circus. It is something that could improve the life of someone who has been through an unthinkable ordeal. Right now, the clinic is secretly talking to patients who are interested in the surgery, and doctors are doing everything they can to protect those patients' privacy. In a follow-up report on Wednesday's Live On Five, NewsChannel5 will talk to a young burn patient about how she feels about this kind of procedure. Burn victims are the most likely candidates for face transplants because they are the most likely to be able to handle the anti-rejection drugs long-term. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #2 November 8, 2005 yikes~! Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #3 November 8, 2005 Pretty cool if they can pull it off. This type of reconstructive surgery is pretty amazing."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ashtanga 0 #4 November 8, 2005 Maybe they can change Nic Cages and Jon Travoltas faces and make a movie about it. maybe call it face Off or something of that nature. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #5 November 8, 2005 I would imagine it difficult to find a donor ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #6 November 8, 2005 The article is talking about using the face from a cadaver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #7 November 8, 2005 What are the ethical question to which they elude? How is this different than other transplants or plastic surgery? Frankly I'm suprised it's not already done for burn victims, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmittar 0 #8 November 8, 2005 I was reading about this a while ago, I think they really have a good chance of pulling it off and changing someone's life in a very positive way. The interesting thing is that the recipient doesn't look like the old person, the face just molds to the new person's structure. Duh when you think about it, but still cool. |>.<| Seriously, W.T.F. mate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #9 November 8, 2005 QuoteMaybe they can change Nic Cages and Jon Travoltas faces and make a movie about it. maybe call it face Off or something of that nature. uhhh, dude. That is IN the article. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #10 November 9, 2005 Quoteusing the face from a cadaver right - I hope so! So it does it have to be a body donated to science. I don't know much about this but I would think that most who donate die of old age? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #11 November 9, 2005 Great idea way past it's time...good that the medical profession is catching up to the need. I would wait for some hunk to die and get his face. as for the "ethical question...what's the problem? I don't see it. As for the journalists... "Because we were afraid that certain irresponsible journalists could take this and turn this into a circus," said Zinns. ...you can count on it...but if you play your cards right, you could come out with a new face and big $$$$!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitysucks 0 #12 November 9, 2005 Quote as for the "ethical question...what's the problem? I don't see it. Quote The problem is the basic, "should we do it just because we can" question. There's alot of pretty amazing stuff that we could do in the field of medical science, but its easy to get carried away. However, if a person is in need of facial reconstructive surgery and there is a donor who has specifically made the stipulation that their facial skin could be used for that purpose, then I don't see a problem with it. The traditional method would require multiple grafts and alot of pain, so if this is better for the patient then I say I'm all for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #13 November 9, 2005 Quote...The problem is the basic, "should we do it just because we can" question... I would agree to that. We could ALL be hunks. Besides, your mug shot in the post office would be invalidated....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #14 November 9, 2005 Quotecheck it out - maybe it belongs in SC... When the philosophical debate starts, it does....while it's in the Bonfire, let's have some fun with it instead... If you had your choice whose face would you take? I would have gone for Clark Gable but my mother had a crush on him and that just makes it SO repulsive....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gmittar 0 #15 November 9, 2005 Um, you don't "look" like the other guy. The face molds to your own facial structure. It's basically just skin. Edit:: Okay, it's alot more than skin, but the shape of the face is determined by what's under it. |>.<| Seriously, W.T.F. mate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #16 November 9, 2005 QuoteUm, you don't "look" like the other guy. The face molds to your own facial structure. It's basically just skin. Um, yeah...so it has always said. Move along...no fun here....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,545 #17 November 9, 2005 I guess it gives a whole new meaning to "saving face." That said, yeah, there aren't a lot of ethical implications in my mind; giant pain-in-the-rear factor, but probably nothing compared with the pain-in-the-rear factor of having a face that people turn away from or constantly stare at. Some people can live with that, some can't. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #18 November 9, 2005 QuoteWhat are the ethical question to which they elude? One of the main things that they mention is that the patient needs to be able to give informed consent. And in this case, for a patient to truly give informed consent, they would need to understand the complex physical and psychological risks involved in this experimental procedure. QuoteHow is this different than other transplants or plastic surgery? From what little I know about it, I'm guessing that it would be somewhat similar to other transplants. But it is different than regular plastic surgery in that they are using foreign tissue that the patient's body might reject. As they mentioned, the patient may have to take anti-rejection medication for the rest of their life, which I believe would weaken their immune system and make them more susceptible to disease and such. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #19 November 9, 2005 QuoteI guess it gives a whole new meaning to "saving face."... I can see it now... Beauty shops offering "facials". GI's response to "Right Face!" Taking song lyrics literaly - "Put on a Happy Face" Wipe that smile off your face. Ok..I'm getting silly now....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites loumeinhart 0 #20 November 9, 2005 Quotebut probably nothing compared with the pain-in-the-rear factor of having a face that people turn away from or constantly stare at. Quote I agree -it's sad but true. I was a kid and got freaked out by this guy at a game - he had baseball-sized tumors on his face. I felt bad but it still scared me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #21 December 5, 2005 Bump... (similar story) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051205/ap_on_he_me/face_transplant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
popsjumper 2 #13 November 9, 2005 Quote...The problem is the basic, "should we do it just because we can" question... I would agree to that. We could ALL be hunks. Besides, your mug shot in the post office would be invalidated....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #14 November 9, 2005 Quotecheck it out - maybe it belongs in SC... When the philosophical debate starts, it does....while it's in the Bonfire, let's have some fun with it instead... If you had your choice whose face would you take? I would have gone for Clark Gable but my mother had a crush on him and that just makes it SO repulsive....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmittar 0 #15 November 9, 2005 Um, you don't "look" like the other guy. The face molds to your own facial structure. It's basically just skin. Edit:: Okay, it's alot more than skin, but the shape of the face is determined by what's under it. |>.<| Seriously, W.T.F. mate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #16 November 9, 2005 QuoteUm, you don't "look" like the other guy. The face molds to your own facial structure. It's basically just skin. Um, yeah...so it has always said. Move along...no fun here....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,545 #17 November 9, 2005 I guess it gives a whole new meaning to "saving face." That said, yeah, there aren't a lot of ethical implications in my mind; giant pain-in-the-rear factor, but probably nothing compared with the pain-in-the-rear factor of having a face that people turn away from or constantly stare at. Some people can live with that, some can't. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #18 November 9, 2005 QuoteWhat are the ethical question to which they elude? One of the main things that they mention is that the patient needs to be able to give informed consent. And in this case, for a patient to truly give informed consent, they would need to understand the complex physical and psychological risks involved in this experimental procedure. QuoteHow is this different than other transplants or plastic surgery? From what little I know about it, I'm guessing that it would be somewhat similar to other transplants. But it is different than regular plastic surgery in that they are using foreign tissue that the patient's body might reject. As they mentioned, the patient may have to take anti-rejection medication for the rest of their life, which I believe would weaken their immune system and make them more susceptible to disease and such. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #19 November 9, 2005 QuoteI guess it gives a whole new meaning to "saving face."... I can see it now... Beauty shops offering "facials". GI's response to "Right Face!" Taking song lyrics literaly - "Put on a Happy Face" Wipe that smile off your face. Ok..I'm getting silly now....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #20 November 9, 2005 Quotebut probably nothing compared with the pain-in-the-rear factor of having a face that people turn away from or constantly stare at. Quote I agree -it's sad but true. I was a kid and got freaked out by this guy at a game - he had baseball-sized tumors on his face. I felt bad but it still scared me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #21 December 5, 2005 Bump... (similar story) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051205/ap_on_he_me/face_transplant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Shotgun 1 #21 December 5, 2005 Bump... (similar story) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051205/ap_on_he_me/face_transplant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
