J1 w/Spectre 170 & PD 143 okay for beginner?

[EirAnne 0]

It says on the post that the DOM for the Cypres 2 is 04/05. How is that 10 years old?

[EirAnne 0]

Yes, you are right. However, I still think it is a suitable canopy for her size and weight.

[erdnarob 1]

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No cause for panic, this is a forum and using certain expressions (bullshit, joke or lack of credibility..) is not the place for that.

The richness is in the variety and is the ultimate objective of a forum like this one, an exchange.

For the lady who is selling parachute: Yes, the Spectre is slightly tapered. The Sabre is not, the Sabre 2 is bit more tapered than the Spectre.

Slight input are necessary only to maintain your canopy on a straight line at landing. That was my meaning, keep your canopy straight forward in order to avoid to turn and sink at high speed. I disagree with you when you say you have to keep from falling off the windline. It is more important to stay on straight line than trying to be absolutely on the windline at any cost. If you take a canopy pilot course which is offered at any level, after a while the instructors will ask you to land at 30 degrees off wind, then 45 degrees.
For a beginner and anybody, staying on a straight line at landing garantees that your canopy will not increase its vertical speed by turning.
I believe that the skydiving community should put more effort at training the beginners to canopy piloting. This is still new but I am looking forward to see canopy piloting as a part of the student training. Flat turn, slightly off wind approach, flare techniques... there is a lot of stuff to cover.
For Bill the moderator. Don't worry too much about me, I am considered as a very cautious careful and conservative the way I am piloting my canopy. And we should avoid generalizing with one or 2 cases in mind. The problem right now is the canopy piloting (which causes alot of injuries) and this iisue has to be taken seriously. Education is still the best.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[fallfast69 3]

I couldn't agree more. I guess I'm just sensative to giving blanket advice on the internet. She may be very capable of making that downsize exactly as you outlined. Personally, I think it's too aggresive. And there are many people, mostly the young males, that are going to read what a very experianced and long time jumper (you) says. To them, if someone like you says it, it must be ok. Next thing you know, they screw themselves into the dirt, or worse.

I'm saddened by the fact that so many people are getting killed or crippled because of their poor choice of canopy selection and the inability to fly them properly. I'm also tired of the canopy collisions that these type of people are causing.

Like I said, she may very well be fine, but I would never suggest downsizing the way you do on the internet. I'd have to have an intimate knowledge of that person canopy skills.

I do, however, think the 170 would be a good canopy for her. She will have a blast on it for at least a hundred jumps, then she could work her way down to the sub 150s. The 143 reserve still makes me a little nervous though.

No worries, and I apoligize for being harsh.

Jon

edit to add a few words and to say I suck at spelling

[skydivecarol 0]

Wow! What an interesting response!

First, thank you to everybody who took the time to respond to my post. Although there seems to be disagreements, at least people care enough to try to answer my question.

I decided not to go with the Spectre 170, 143 Reserve and J1, instead I just purchased:

J4
Silouhette 190
Precision Raven Reserve 218
Cypress

I am still confused about some people telling me (not just from this forum) not to jump my 190 in the wind, so I am going to check with a trusted jump master to get a better understanding of that.

Further, I figured that I might as well go conservative, at least until I can make more accurate landings. I always land in the landing area, however, I am unable to pick a particular spot and land in it. I have a lot of learning to do, so I think by choosing a 190 I am playing it safe--at least I hope I am.

Thanks again to everybody who offered advice!!!

[hackish 8]

I think the 190 with a raven 218 is a better ratio of square footage - congrats on your purchase.


One thing I'd like to point out here is that there are vast differences in regional advice. I started jumping a Sabre2 170 at about 40 jumps. In my region this was not out of the ordinary. Someone just visiting my DZ today had 55 jumps and is on a sabre2-150 and I'm sure he weighs the same as me - that's aggressive in my mind but I'm not an instructor and haven't tried a 150 yet. Another guy has about 35 jumps and is on a sabre2-170.

In some parts of the world and certainly on this forum we are all labeled as loonies or DGIT's. Those who saw me in person and the guy who did the canopy course this fall all felt I was just fine. The local instructors too.

I went from a 280 to a 210 to a 170 in a span of about 10-15 jumps. That doesn't strike me as inconsistent with a 170-150-135 given 40lbs less wingloading. 135 sounds aggressive to me - like the local guy with fewer jumps on the 150 but let's not forget the proposed rig had a 143R in it!

Some say we have better training up here but ultimately the best advice should really come from a variety of local instructors who know their student and can assess the skills of the individual. Lots of interweb advice can be contradictory - how about fallfast69 who calls the advice of erdnarob bullshit but then tells the student to try a 143!!! We are all just e-web identities hiding behind keyboards so make sure you talk to a real live instructor for your important advice!

-Michael

[fallfast69 3]

Quote

Lots of interweb advice can be contradictory - how about fallfast69 who calls the advice of erdnarob bullshit but then tells the student to try a 143!!! We are all just e-web identities hiding behind keyboards so make sure you talk to a real live instructor for your important advice!

-Michael

Not directly aimed at you Michael

I was worried that someone would mis-understand what I was trying to say. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

What I said was "demo a 143" to check out how she felt under under it. I also said, many times, the 143 reserve worried me. Making 1 demo jump under a smaller canopy to check it out is a whole lot different than buying and jumping a small canopy as your everyday canopy at her jump numbers. Not that you won't get hurt, killed, or crippled doing 1 jump on the smaller canopy, it's just that the odds are more in your favor. I've got a feeling that after that demo under the 143, she wouldn't want a reserve that small...but I could be wrong!

Many jumpers are jumping canopies that are too small for their abilities. They "get away with it" for dozens, sometimes hundreds of jumps, but in the end, many of them end up getting hurt or worse before they better.

I'm not just blowing smoke...all you have to do pay attention to the incident thread, and understand that many canopy accidents/incidents, and close calls, are never reported.

Anyone who plans on skydiving for the rest of their life needs think of it as a "long range plan". There is no need to be in such a hurry to get under a canopy that may, in a bad way, shorten your long range plan.

The sport of skydiving will be here for the rest of your life, your choices along the way can determine just how long that will be.

Jon

[erdnarob 1]

Carol, your choice is good provided it has been done by balancing the pros and the cons to downsize. Later on if you find out that what I have said is not that terrible you will change and there is nothing wrong with that. If you have the chance to follow a canopy pilot course with professionals, do it. They take you at any level.
The only bug I see it that your reserve is quite bigger than your main (228 versus 190). Anybody will say, good for her. Well, there is a case where your big reserve can be a problem. This is if you find yourself with 2 parachutes out and having a biplane. I personally believe that a reserve with lines shorter than the main ones will have less tendency to lead your main in this case and therefore reducing the possibility of a downplane. If a biplane happens don't undo the reserve brakes and if the biplane is quiet, reserve behind the main, keep both parachutes and be gentle on the toggles.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[skydivecarol 0]

The only bug I see it that your reserve is quite bigger than your main (228 versus 190). Anybody will say, good for her. Well, there is a case where your big reserve can be a problem. This is if you find yourself with 2 parachutes out and having a biplane. I personally believe that a reserve with lines shorter than the main ones will have less tendency to lead your main in this case and therefore reducing the possibility of a downplane. If a biplane happens don't undo the reserve brakes and if the biplane is quiet, reserve behind the main, keep both parachutes and be gentle on the toggles.

[hackish 8]

A downplane is when one parachute is flying opposite the other. This causes you to fly toward the ground since the two are pulling against each other.
http://www.march.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/080430-A-0003L-002.JPG

If you did end up with 2 out, the behaviour of the two would probably be more related to the length of their respective lines. In the two out report they did talk about the two parachutes being in the same general size and I think the 228->190 ratio is better than 143->170 because they don't scale in a linear fashion.