S&T Response, Installment 1

[Gary73 10]

Over on the USPA BOD Elections Forum I was asked to express my thoughts on matters relating to safety and training. I don't know why, since I'm not a candidate and I never claimed to know what's good for every dropzone, but some of the folks there have been quite insistent, so here's Installment One. (You might want to take a potty break now!)

There a lot of different factors involved in this area and no one of them can fix everything, but the single most important factor is the dropzone owner. Partly that's a matter of numbers: The U.S. has about 30,000 active skydivers and thousands of instructors, but only about 300 DZOs. But mostly it's about the DZO's role: He's the one who creates the overall personality and environment at the dropzone. He's the one who has to make the important and sometimes difficult and unpopular decisions that most of us don't even think about. To name a few, he's the one who decides:
- To choose a location with a large landing area with few hazards and plenty of outs (or not!)
- To use properly maintained jump planes (or not!)
- To use qualified jump pilots (or not!)
- To support the pilot on who's-in-command issues (or not!)
- To establish proper aircraft fueling and operating procedures (or not!)
- To enforce seatbelt and helmet rules (or not!)
- To enforce the door-closed-on-takeoff rule (or not!)
- To use a safe exit order and interval (or not!)
- To have modern, well-maintained student, Tandem, and rental gear (or not!)
- To have (and actually use) an effective student training program (or not!)
- To provide opportunities for advanced training in areas like canopy control (or not!)
- To use USPA-rated instructors who put student learning and safety ahead of making a lot of jumps (or not!)
- To give instructors enough time to do thorough ground preps (or not!)
- To abide by reasonable wind limits for students (including Tandems) (or not!)
- To insist that staff members set a good example in their own behavior (or not!)
- To hold Safety Day and/or other such activities (or not!)
- To have rules (or at least strong guidelines) regarding canopy progression (or not!)
- To establish landing patterns (or not!)
- To separate high-performance and regular landings (or not!)
- To educate both jumpers and local aircraft pilots on how to avoid conflicts (or not!)
- To make Safety and Training Advisor a meaningful position (or not!)
- To counsel anyone who breaks rules (or not!) and, if necessary,
- To discipline anyone who ignores counselling (or not!)

The vast majority of DZOs score well on the above, but if you look at the close calls, injuries, and fatalities that we have in the sport, I think you'll find that a lot of them are indicative of failures in one or more of these areas. Don't get me wrong: I have a lot of respect for almost all the DZOs I've met. I've seen the dedication that they demonstrate day after day, often for a business that gives very little return on investment, financially at least, and often for customers who do little but complain. We should all thank the good DZOs out there every now and then. But for any DZOs who read this and feel that some of these items cut a little deep, don't shoot the messenger, fix the problem: you're the only one who can.

Having said all that, instructors and regular jumpers play a role here, too. If you have safety concerns, talk with your S&TA and/or DZO. Maybe there's a good reason for what's happening. Or maybe it's a gray area and your opinion just happens to be a little more on the conservative side, but both opinions are valid. (There's a lot of that in this sport!) But after that, if you honestly think that your DZO is not sufficiently safety oriented, then your only recourse is to vote with your feet and take your business or services elsewhere. And don't give me any crap about that meaning that you'll have to drive farther. Commute time will be the least of your concerns if your plane goes into the trees or some swooper hits you from behind at 80 MPH.

Now as for what USPA can do about all this, the answer is: not much. It might be nice to have a manual of "best practices", kind of like a SIM for DZOs, but DZOs are mostly pretty experienced skydivers, and are often riggers and pilots, too. They generally know when they're trading safety for convenience or income, and aren't interested in having anyone remind them. As for enforcement, the Skyride debacle proved that USPA can't discipline any dropzone owner who knows a lawyer, and now that every DZO in the country knows that, USPA probably won't even try unless the offense is a real jaw-dropper. The problem here is that the Group Member Program is too much like a Trade Organization, making it a federally regulated entity and prohibiting USPA from imposing restrictions on how group members operate.

So those would be my recommendations for what the BOD can do about this aspect of Safety and Training:
1. USPA should develop a "DZO's Information Manual" which combines information from the SIM, FARs, the two USPA/FAA videos, the "Starting a DZ" packet, and input from the S&T Director and Committee, PIA, NTSB, FAA, experienced jumpers, instructors, DZOs, jump pilots, and maybe airport managers. This would include "best practices" on all the items above, and it should be available to everyone free online and for a reasonable price in printed form. Such a manual would help DZOs who are open to such things to create the safest environment possible. After that, it's up to the jumpers.
2. USPA should abolish the Group Member Program and go back to serving skydivers, not dropzones. That way USPA would be free to provide safety-related services to ALL dropzones, while still being able to issue something like a "USPA Approved" rating to dropzones which follow both safety and ethics guidelines. Then jumpers and potential jumpers could choose a dropzone based on something more than location and how cool their Web site is.

And I guess that'll do it for Installment One. If there's enough interest, I'll go for Two sometime. Meanwhile, it's your turn now: Let us know how you feel about the DZO's role in Safety and Training.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[popsjumper 2]

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Let us know how you feel about the DZO's role in Safety and Training.

To name a few, he's the one who decides:

- To enforce seatbelt and helmet rules (or not!)

- To enforce the door-closed-on-takeoff rule (or not!)

- To have (and actually use) an effective student training program (or not!)

- To use USPA-rated instructors who put student learning and safety ahead of making a lot of jumps (or not!)

- To insist that staff members set a good example in their own behavior (or not!)

- To have rules (or at least strong guidelines) regarding canopy progression (or not!)

- To make Safety and Training Advisor a meaningful position (or not!)

- To counsel anyone who breaks rules (or not!)

- To discipline anyone who ignores counselling (or not!)

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But for any DZOs who read this...fix the problem: you're the only one who can.

And herein lies the problem because,as you said, ...

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They (DZOs) generally know when they're trading safety for convenience or income, and aren't interested in having anyone remind them.

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...maybe it's a gray area and your opinion just happens to be a little more on the conservative side.

We could use more conservatism in the industry.

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...your (skydivers) only recourse is to vote with your feet and take your business or services elsewhere. And don't give me any crap about that meaning that you'll have to drive farther....Then jumpers and potential jumpers could choose a dropzone based on something more than location and how cool their Web site is.

Unfortunately, this is NOT going to happen.
To my mind, most jumpers will gladly sacrifice safety to the glorious air conditioned packing DZ...or the DZ with the biggest, fastest plane...or to the "my friends jump there" excuse.

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Now as for what USPA can do about all this, the answer is: not much.

I believe this to be true and we're wasting alot of breath talking about it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[peek 21]

I look forward to more Installments, all of that was well put.

You wrote: "..but the single most important factor is the dropzone owner.

I too have been saying that for quite some time, in this form: "Safety starts with the DZO (operator), be it the business owner (or the club President)."

[bencrooch 0]

A lot of good info here. I like the idea of a DZO manual. What on this list do you feel Rook is neglecting?

P.S. If you are scared of getting hit by a swooper, stay away from the high performance landing area! If there is not one, make one. If there is not enough room... No swooping (I will not be there as the swoop is my favorite part of the skydive). At my dropzone it is a constant battle between the swoop/non-swoop crowd. There is plenty of room for all of us. Yet still drama!

My high score on Donkey Kong is 239,400.

[Gary73 10]

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I believe this to be true and we're wasting alot of breath talking about it.

Probably, but at least it keeps us off the streets.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[Gary73 10]

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A lot of good info here. I like the idea of a DZO manual.

Thanks.

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What on this list do you feel Rook is neglecting?

Never been to SDC, haven't heard any safety or training-quality complaints about the place, and don't see anything in my post above to imply otherwise. I was asked to express my thoughts about S&T in general so I did so in the S&T Forum. This thread has nothing to do with SDC, Rook, his BOD candidacy, or my preference in that race.

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P.S. If you are scared of getting hit by a swooper, stay away from the high performance landing area! If there is not one, make one. If there is not enough room... No swooping (I will not be there as the swoop is my favorite part of the skydive). At my dropzone it is a constant battle between the swoop/non-swoop crowd. There is plenty of room for all of us. Yet still drama!

You're damn right I'm scared of colliding with a swooper - or anyone else for that matter! We've lost way too many skydivers that way lately.

We have very little trouble with this at my home DZ, since we do separate traffic by time and area. My whole point was that some DZOs (including yours, from what you write) don't separate traffic. And individual jumpers can't just invent their own landing areas any more than they can invent their own landing patterns. Those need to be consistent, known to everybody, and enforced on everybody, which can only happen with the DZO's support. And even when all that's in place, it only takes one guy breaking the rules one time to cause a tragedy, but that's a subject for another thread.

But yeah, I'll push off to the alternate landing area at the slightest excuse. As our DZO puts it, "Walking is good for you!".

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[mjosparky 4]

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There is plenty of room for all of us. Yet still drama!

If it is just drama why have we lost about 25 jumpers to canopy collisions in the last few years?

Sparky

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/fatalities/search.cgi?fatal_category=Collision

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[diablopilot 2]

Because for some reason, the hotheads think they have the "Right" to land how, where, and when they want, and no one teaches them different.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rwieder 0]

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Because for some reason, the hotheads think they have the "Right" to land how, where, and when they want, and no one teaches them different.

Why do you think this is Sparky? I think the answer lies within a training program. Teach, Test and perform quarterly. The bad thing about canopies is anyone can buy a cross braced elipitical canopy. It would seem to me that experienced SkyDivers would be a little more concious about selling their canopies just so they can down size even further. What this does is endanger two SkyDivers, the one who sells the canopy to someone who is not competant to fly it, in addition to taking the risks of putting them selves in harms way by down sizing them selves. I think it would be a good idea if DZO's & S&TA's step up and see to it that all of our low time jumpers are not flying too high of a W.L. I've seen it and so have you. I've tried talking to a few of these SkyDivers but they didn't listen. Now 3 SkyDivers i was very close to aren't with us anymore. I've never forgotten them.

One day i plan on being an S&TA, not because i want to be the DZ Safety Nazi but so i can help our younger generation stay alive.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Gary73 10]

Some good points above, but unfortunately the problem isn't limited to low-timers, and it isn't even limited to the people who fly highly-loaded canopies. Too often it's guys with thousands of jumps who kill themselves, or, worse yet, kill innocent bystanders who are flying standard landing patterns. Unfortunately, DZOs can't prevent all of these accidents, but many could do more to reduce their probability by requiring the separation of high-performance and standard landings by time and/or location.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[mjosparky 4]

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Some good points above, but unfortunately the problem isn't limited to low-timers, and it isn't even limited to the people who fly highly-loaded canopies. Too often it's guys with thousands of jumps who kill themselves, or, worse yet, kill innocent bystanders who are flying standard landing patterns. Unfortunately, DZOs can't prevent all of these accidents, but many could do more to reduce their probability by requiring the separation of high-performance and standard landings by time and/or location.

Basically what he said. This is going to get me flamed but so what. It is the “Entitlement Generation” convinced they are entitled to do what they want when they want. They refuse to consider that they might make a mistake and could care less about the rights and safety of others. This is just my opinion, rant over.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Some good points above, but unfortunately the problem isn't limited to low-timers, and it isn't even limited to the people who fly highly-loaded canopies. Too often it's guys with thousands of jumps who kill themselves, or, worse yet, kill innocent bystanders who are flying standard landing patterns. Unfortunately, DZOs can't prevent all of these accidents, but many could do more to reduce their probability by requiring the separation of high-performance and standard landings by time and/or location.

Basically what he said. This is going to get me flamed but so what. It is the “Entitlement Generation” convinced they are entitled to do what they want when they want. They refuse to consider that they might make a mistake and could care less about the rights and safety of others. This is just my opinion, rant over.

Sparky

I agree with your opinion.

The same "entitled ones" also seem to be the "immune ones" who don't need the reccommended experience to do advanced stuff- downsizing, swooping, freefly ect.
They won't get hurt, they're different than all the people who got hurt or killed.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo