Craziest thing

[maurice1369 0]

The craziest thing happened 2 weeks ago when I was jumping. I was on the ground packing up my rig and the people who flew back down on the plane had said that they had a Cypres fire inside of the plane. Now I don't know if this is a new found error in it or not but i FIGURED THIS WAS WORTH NOTING.

Also, to let you know it was a Pax750 that was flying that day

EXPECT THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST!!!

[BillyVance 34]

That happens sometimes. Not the first and won't be the last.

If you're riding the plane down and have a cypres in your rig and it's on, best to warn the pilot to descend easy the last couple thousand feet.

That's not to say a cypres won't accidentally fire outside its parameters, especially the older ones. Something about radio interference? Doing a search on old threads will turn these topics up.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[DougH 270]

It might be more noteworthy if you actually had some information to provide.

Did they land with the plane because they had an open reserve container onboard, or were they already landing with the plane and the unit fired in the process?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[councilman24 37]

All cypres' subject to the radio interference had shielding added during normal 4 year maintainence. It has been several years since the anti static sheath has been required on older cypres'

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Rover 11]

Time for another 'my Cypres is better than your Vigil' debate?

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[jurgencamps 0]

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... the people who flew back down on the plane had said that they had a Cypres fire inside of the plane.

The cypres fired during descent?

The manual is clear that you have to turn of a studentcypres if you come down with the plane*.

Nevertheless, if the plane is still descending very fast (vertical speed above the activationspeed of the AAD), the AAD will fire at the right altitude.

A few years ago, a pilot and and a co-pilot where killed when the FXC (mechanical device) fired and launched the pilotchute of the reserve out the door. (The co-pilot was wearing a student-rig equipped with a FXC).

* read the manual for the complete and correct answer (hint 1500 ft)

[Reginald 0]

I'm presuming that the people that came down on the plane were students or using rental gear that had a student Cypres? If the student Cypres was not turned off as the manual recommends it is highly likely that it will fire during decent. The student units are VERY sensitive by design. This sounds like good old fashion user error.

What I’ve learned from this is not that there is likely a defect with a Cypres like you are implying but instead that you are uninformed about how different models of AAD’s function, their firing parameters and how to use them in various circumstances. Please read a Cypres manual and educate yourself about how they work. And if you haven’t done so read your Vigil manual too! I’m constantly shocked and disappointed at how few people have ever read the manual for the computer attached to their reserves. The shocking ignorance by the majority of skydivers of how AAD’s function scares me. Read the manual people…

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Chrisky 0]

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The shocking ignorance by the majority of skydivers of how AAD’s their gear functions scares me.

Same here. Never stop learning!

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[erdnarob 1]

It seems that Airtec has 4000 Cypres units with defective pressure sensor in the field. They apparently knew the problem 15 months ago according the memo from their Swiss pressure sensor manufacturer. That's why I don't understand with they recalled only 800 units very recently. If you take the serial numbers of the recalled units you easily can calculate that the difference is about 4000. I have been a quality control technician for Bombardier (Lear jet, Skyvan, Twin Otter, Challenger...)and I do know that when a batch has faulty devices, you have to scrap them all or recall them for an individual check at high cost.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Chrisky 0]

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It seems that Airtec has 4000 Cypres units with defective pressure sensor in the field.

You are implying Airtec used all 4000 of the defective sensors.

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

What about if they scrapped the 3200 remaining sensors after they were informed 18 months ago (roughly December 2006)?

The units affected were sold/manufactured from August until December 2006. According to the Service bulletin, they checked out on the 14 days quality control checks at Airtec. It seems a bit much to suspect they'd sell 4000 units in just 6 months; 800 seems much more reasonable.

Only reason to complain (and rightly so) would be Airtech not recalling the units immediately after being informed by the manufacturer even though the units checked out during their own testing.

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[erdnarob 1]

You said it all. Airtec didn't say anything about the faulty sensors for 15 or 18 months. They have been told about the problem by the sensor manufacturer and did nothing for 18 months. The 4000 faulty sensors have been installed during those 18 months not 6 months. OTOH, if the sensors have an itermitent problem, they can easily pass the quality control. But when you are told by the manufacturer the sensors are not good, there is no excuse.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[maurice1369 0]

they landed with the plane because the tandem student did not want to go through with the jump and the Cypres fired during the ride down

EXPECT THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST!!!

[maurice1369 0]

I am in no way trying to start another cypres versus vigil debate. They both have good qualities and they both have had recalls. Yes it is true that the Cypres has had more saves than the Vigil but that is because it has been out longer than the Vigil. Oh and one other thing, I created this thread not to start a debate but to just inform the community about possible problems.

EXPECT THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST!!!

[pilotdave 0]

Was there a problem with the cypres or did the pilot just descend too fast? It was the tandem cypres that fired? Did the pilot not realize that they fire at 1900 feet?

Dave

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

The craziest thing happened 2 weeks ago when I was jumping. I was on the ground packing up my rig and the people who flew back down on the plane had said that they had a Cypres fire inside of the plane. Now I don't know if this is a new found error in it or not but i FIGURED THIS WAS WORTH NOTING.

Also, to let you know it was a Pax750 that was flying that day

Nice pilot....

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

It seems that Airtec has 4000 Cypres units with defective pressure sensor in the field. They apparently knew the problem 15 months ago according the memo from their Swiss pressure sensor manufacturer. That's why I don't understand with they recalled only 800 units very recently. If you take the serial numbers of the recalled units you easily can calculate that the difference is about 4000. I have been a quality control technician for Bombardier (Lear jet, Skyvan, Twin Otter, Challenger...)and I do know that when a batch has faulty devices, you have to scrap them all or recall them for an individual check at high cost.

Assuming the serial numbers were assigned sequentially, which would be silly since you want to catch typos in warranty registrations (to make sure you send recall notices to the last known adress or whatever) and may want some translation between production date and unit which does not require a database lookup.

For example, a recall affecting serials 110-130 may only affect two units when the numbers have a check digit suffixed like

109
118
127
136

If some one had reported "117" on their waranty registration you could have called them back and found whether they actually had missed a digit by one like 118 or 127.

You may have a recall for serials 81700004 - 81710003 which only affect the 21 units you actually built on the 170th day of 2008.

Or you may have something even more horrendous that encodes all of the sub-assembly production dates.

Even more interesting combinations are possible where you're not using entire base-10 digits for each field.

I can't fit the original CYPRES serial numbers in the space provided in my rigging log book and hope they've come up with something denser.

[riggerrob 643]

Better jump pilots are trained to calm down/slow down descent rate before they enter the landing pattern at 1,000 feet. This a professional courtesy - to other pilots - to fly a predictable landing pattern.

Remember than most modern electronic AADs fire between 1,000 and 750 feet.
Few jump pilots have been told that tandem AADs fire near 2,000 feet.
Ignorance is bliss!!!

[bodypilot1 0]

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Few jump pilots have been told that tandem AADs fire near 2,000 feet.

And thats the problem, even though they haul about tandems 80% of the time......

Quote

Ignorance is bliss!!!

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[maurice1369 0]

I don't think there was a problem with the cypres. but I think even though the plane descended to fast there should be some way where the unit does not fire in the plane. But hey I don't know

EXPECT THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST!!!

[livendive 8]

Quote

they landed with the plane because the tandem student did not want to go through with the jump and the Cypres fired during the ride down

Suddenly it doesn't seem quite so crazy. The TI should have informed the pilot to slow it down (and included some safety margin). If I have to land with a tandem, I tell the pilot to back off the descent by 2500.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)