mrbiceps 0 #1 June 19, 2008 are those fxc aads any good? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #2 June 19, 2008 Quoteare those fxc aads any good? Old news. Way past their prime. I'm not a rigger but I used to have an FXC my first year. Got rid of it after a misfire resulted in a two-out. If it's all you can afford, well, I'd rather find a used Cypres properly priced to its remaining service life than get a FXC. JMO."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #3 June 19, 2008 FXC 12000 AADs can "mis-fire" any time below 2,500 feet. What is any junior jumper still doing in freefall below 2500 feet? Meanwhile, modern electronic AADs (e.g. Cypres) have an annoying habit of "mis-firing" below 1,000 feet. What is any jumper doing in freefall below 1,000 feet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #4 June 19, 2008 Quoteare those fxc aads any good? Which "fxc"? There are many models. The two most common for skydivers are FXC Model 12000 and FXC Astra. Beware those people who say only "FXC". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #5 June 19, 2008 FXC 12000 mechanical AAD are reliable provided they are recalibrated by the manufacturery every 2 years. There is still many DZ which use it mainly for student rigs. Mechanical AAD have many advantages with respect to the electronical ones. No problem with: static electricity, EMR interference, batteries, cutter, broken cable... However there are not as accurate but they have saved many lives.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #6 June 19, 2008 I think you should note if your referring to a ASTRA or the older version 1200 The Astra is a good unit as long as you have the most recent software version. I have one on one of my rigs and don't have any issues. They do work as a save recently was attributed to an ASTRA. I think it was last year and the jumper hurt his arm or shoulder and could not pull the reserve. They still sell and service them but the big con on them seems/seemed to be that you have to have the control unit outside the container usually on the mud flap. Also you have the turn it on and off between each jump for calibration. It isd not like the turn it on and forget it units like the Cypress and Vigil Scott"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrbiceps 0 #7 June 20, 2008 i am refering to the 12000 model. whats a recalibration of this model cost? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #8 June 20, 2008 I have personally seen 3 misfires on FXC12000 units that I believe were maintained according to manual. I would MUCH rather jump without an AAD.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #9 June 20, 2008 QuoteFXC 12000 mechanical AAD are reliable provided they are recalibrated by the manufacturery every 2 years. There is still many DZ which use it mainly for student rigs. Mechanical AAD have many advantages with respect to the electronical ones. No problem with: static electricity, EMR interference, batteries, cutter, broken cable... However there are not as accurate but they have saved many lives. And it is the only AAD in which the cutter can actually be tested, without needing to be replaced. But people also need to understand that there is a "high-altitude" version for places such as CO, that has a different calibration."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #10 June 20, 2008 QuoteAnd it is the only AAD in which the cutter can actually be tested, without needing to be replaced. It doesn't have a cutter. It uses a spring to pull the pin."It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #11 June 20, 2008 QuoteQuoteAnd it is the only AAD in which the cutter can actually be tested, without needing to be replaced. It doesn't have a cutter. It uses a spring to pull the pin. Doh! You're right. It's been so long since I've seen one, I forgot about that."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #12 June 20, 2008 I personally won't pack an FXC. Yes, I (unfortunatly) still know of dropzones that use them on their student rigs, and frankly I feel that they are doing their students (customers) a terrible dis-service by not offering that type of gear to them to learn on. I lose a little respect for a DZO that will allow his students to learn on out of date gear. As far as the Astra is concerned, this is another high-horse I could get on. There is nothing wrong with one as Long as you have the updated software versions. it's a good, safe AAD. This may just be personal opinion, but I believe that unit was very undervalued and overlooked by most jumpers because it came out when Cypres was the hottest thing since sliced bread.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #13 June 20, 2008 You mean the FXC 12000? Just to give an more precise info for the readers because I am sure you know it, there is no cutter on the FXC 12000 since the device pulls the pin. . If this is the one you mean, I have tested it several times. HOW? You just put the square box sensor (generally attached to the main web and turned on JUMP) in your 2 hands, then you apply your mouth on your partially open hands and blow air powerfully. That tells the device the pressure increases fast simulating a descent speed and since you are on the ground then lower than the firing minimum altitude, the FXC 12000 fires. Don't do that too often if the device is not pulling the closing pin otherwise you can probably damage the spring of this AAD since there is no resistance.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #14 June 23, 2008 Quote I personally won't pack an FXC. Yes, I (unfortunatly) still know of dropzones that use them on their student rigs, and frankly I feel that they are doing their students (customers) a terrible dis-service by not offering that type of gear to them to learn on. I lose a little respect for a DZO that will allow his students to learn on out of date gear. As far as the Astra is concerned, this is another high-horse I could get on. There is nothing wrong with one as Long as you have the updated software versions. it's a good, safe AAD. This may just be personal opinion, but I believe that unit was very undervalued and overlooked by most jumpers because it came out when Cypres was the hottest thing since sliced bread. I think this is a little extreme. I spent 4 years at a DZ that had FXCs on all of their RAPs and hire kits, and I didnt see a single problem occur. I dont understand why people seem to hate them so much. They work just as well as they used to work, and in the right situations (ie. student kit with big canopies) can be a cheaper alternative to Cypres. If it aint broke, why fix it? As for testing: Instead of blowing, Ive seen them tested with a plastic bag around the box being squeezed. Saves blowing any crap into the air inlet. And they also put bungies around the opening to coushin the impact from the spring. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 June 23, 2008 Good points. Like you, I have had good results working with FXC 12000 for more than 26 years. I have only seen one mis-fire at 7,000 feet. All the rest of the "mis-fires" occured below 2,500 feet. Tee! Hee! Just remember that the plastic bag or "blow on it" technique is only the first step in the (repack) testing process. You still need to run it through a test chamber with an accurate altimeter and rate of descent meter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #16 June 23, 2008 Quote I have only seen one mis-fire at 7,000 feet. All the rest of the "mis-fires" occured below 2,500 feet. You are making it sound like misfire at 2,5k is somehow better than misfire at 7k ? Am I reading this correct ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #17 June 24, 2008 These will be because the student pulled low. IIRC, the FXC12000 has a margin of error of something like +- 500ft or so. So when on big rigs, with students pulling above 3500, it should be fine. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #18 June 24, 2008 I think he's calling a no pull a "misfire" -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #19 June 24, 2008 QuoteI have personally seen 3 misfires on FXC12000 units that I believe were maintained according to manual. I would MUCH rather jump without an AAD.. An FXC12000 saved my student ass from splattering on a hanger roof.......... Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #20 June 24, 2008 The one on the student rig I was using "misfired" at 1500 feet while the unit was set at 1000 feet...a fraction of a second second after I pulled the silver after a closed container mal. If that's a misfire, I'll take it. No AAD and three more seconds and I'd have impacted at linestretch."That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #21 June 24, 2008 QuoteThese will be because the student pulled low. IIRC, the FXC12000 has a margin of error of something like +- 500ft or so. So when on big rigs, with students pulling above 3500, it should be fine. +300 feet when chambered in the field, as required at each repack. The yellow warning sticker on the side of the control head says main canopy opening must be 1500 feet above the set altitude. Since there is no accurate calibration in the 1000-foot red zone, the minimum main canopy open altitude is 2500. That's open, so you have to start the ripcord pull before that. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #22 June 24, 2008 Agree .... seen them used for years without incident ... Just coz they arent the latest and greatest dosnt mean they are not up to the job Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #23 June 24, 2008 QuoteI think he's calling a no pull a "misfire" -Michael ...................................................................... Correct! I was being sarcastic. Humor translates so poorly over the internet. This was more of a "dig" at yuppie skydivers who whine about electronic AADs "mis-firing" at 1,000 feet. "But I was reaching for my pilot chute!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #24 June 24, 2008 The truth is with the cost of maintenance over a twelve year period, the FXC is no longer a cheaper alternative. There are DZs that have not yet replaced their 12000s with electronic AADs, but the billevery year for half the fleet to go back to Cali is a constant incentive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #25 June 25, 2008 QuoteThe truth is with the cost of maintenance over a twelve year period, the FXC is no longer a cheaper alternative. A good point. To expand on that: FXC's are normally, what, a standard $200 charge for the 2 yr service (plus $ for any fixes)? Thus $100/yr. Meanwhile a Cypres 1 averages out to say $80 for battery every 2 yrs and $160 for service every four, which is $80/yr. (I'm ignoring taxes, depending on where you live, and shipping charges which are appreciable, but would be held down by shipping in bulk for DZ's. Cypres' may do better on that front due to weight.) Also there's some DZ labour involved in doing chamber checks on the FXC's every 6 months, or even just once a season if the DZO slacks off a little. Yes the maintenance actually comes out in favour of the Cypres. But upfront costs favour the FXC. I think used ones are available for $50, equivalent to almost nothing per year. Without getting into the time value of money, a Cypres is closer to $100 / year to cover the purchase price, tipping the balance overall in favour of the FXC. Still your point is valuable - FXC's don't just sit there costing no money for maintenance, unless the DZO is unscrupulous. Let's face it, I think a lot of the decision depends on the gear. If you are buying a bunch of brand new student rigs, the company will probably laugh at you if you asked for FXC mounting plates. And if you already have 20 sets of 1980's static line student gear, you are going to leave the FXC's in, and not spend $1300 per rig to install Cypres' (and sew in Cypres pockets.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites